Starlight skirt under the minister

[MangaDex]

 

[kuroneko36]

This will be a journey!

 

[Pokari]

That translation nearly makes sense grammatically but feels like it's terribly falling afoul of the common "Surely you know about these wuxia/xanxia/w/e terms, as well as Chinese slang. Right?"

Like, I know "male god" is basically "bishounen" (instead of literally a god that is male), but the rest is lost on me.

I wonder if this trend is simply because there are straight-up more Chinese than English first-language speakers (as opposed to the other way around with Japanese and Korean) and so odd literal translations being codified is, accordingly, just A Thing.

 

[sorarinnie]

@pokari I know you commented a while back but just to let you know bishounen just means a super good looking (younger) guy in Japanese so doesn't have to related to male gods (though most that show up in manga are undeniably handsome lol)
But yeah, I haven't read this but I don't know Chinese slang either

 

[Pokari]

@sorarinnie:

For a second you made me doubt my understanding of the Chinese term, but a quick google search does seem to confirm my understanding:

男神, or nanshen in pinyin, literally means male god, but it is used to describe a male that is usually so handsome and good-looking that he is almost god-like. It sounds like a mouthful, but this slang can be used on a daily basis.

_{Possible subtle difference in terms of implied-age of "bishounen" notwithstanding. In manga usage, it seemed the closest neighbor that came to mind. Especially out of words that have received enough adoption in the English-speaking fan-base, to be recognizable enough to use in casual conversation.}

Is it possible you are also mistaking "male god" as literally a male god, and thus falling afoul of exactly the literal-translation-convention problems I was talking about...?

 

[sorarinnie]

@Pokari Oh yeah, 男神 means male god in Japanese, too, but that's not pronounced "bishounen" (which would be written as 美少年, or for good looking men of all ages 美男子 -bidanshi-) in Japanese. I was just referring to that since you used a Japanese term and I got confused and thought you mean bishounan always means male god; I didn't realize you were referring to Chinese slang. That second character (神) literally means "god" and that's not there in bishounen nor is it used as slang in Japanese. There are a lot of differences in Chinese and Japanese and I only speak Japanese so I definitely can't speak to how Chinese slang works (and again, I didn't realize that's what you were referring to).

 

[Pokari]

@sorarinnie: Yeah, I was just using a Japanese word with similar meaning as a comparative analogue (thus the conjoining "is basically" in the original sentence).

(And, "bishounen" and to a lesser extent "bishoujo" are, for whatever historical reasons, recognisable to the English-speaking manga fanbase in a way that "bidanshi" and "bijo" are not. And "bishounen" in particular has possibly more or less half taken on it's own colour of meaning in English use, I feel, which was upon reflection more the spirit I was using it in, but... I digress. My point is it was not intended to be the most accurate translation, it was just a casual comparison-in-passing and will indeed not stand up to the level of analysis it's being subjected to right now XD)

 

[sorarinnie]

@Pokari Got it haha, at first I was like, they use "bishounen" in Chinese?! XD
But yeah, at this point so many words have crossed over! I heard this one guy use "isekai" in casual conversation (before I'd known it became a genre) and was like, "I understand what you're saying and what it means but I have no idea in what context you'd naturally learn it" because it's just not casual vocabulary people would really use, even if they were learning Japanese. I also thought it probably would be something that would have been left untranslated in manga enough for people to remember, but I was completely wrong haha 😆

 

[Keimichi]

I'm just gonna add that bishonen (mei shao nian 美少年) IS a word in chinese as well, and means exactly the same as what it does in japanese. 美少年 is kanji after all, and in chinese, it's hanzi lol.
It's just that bishonen is literal. Literally means "pretty (美) boy (少年)". 美男子 (bidanshi/mei nan zi) is actually used as well, quite commonly.

Meanwhile, "male god" 男神 is figurative. Like a mini figure of speech. They're not a literal god; it's just a very common slang to refer to someone who is very skilled as something as "(something) god". It's basically like saying you have god-like skills/aptitude in something (and implied that a mass of people admire-worship the person for it). In this case, it means a guy whose looks is so godly, to the point people worship him for it. Basically a better equivalent is to say someone is a (figurative) idol. Based on the other comments, this same expression isn't used in Japanese, so in Japanese you'll only understand 男神 as its literal meaning.

美少年 would just says that dude is pretty, without all the implied meaning that it's over the top beauty like a "male god" us. It's like the difference between calling someone "handsome" and an "Adonis". Both are nice, but one has the connotation of being the top of the top.

I do think bishonen is used mostly it has gone beyond its original japanese origins, and become a slang/loan word in english as well. While the chinese slang of "male god" has not.

@sorarinnie Following what I said above, Isekai also is kinda the same in how it has taken a slang meaning in english directly.
In chinese there's an equivalent which is basically "穿越" (to pass thru) but means basically means transmigration, and is a slang in the same effect as isekai (before isekai was even popular), but also covers time travel and reincarnation. Meanwhile, 異世界 (lit "another world") is still understandable, and can be understood literally, but might not have the same strong effect as a slang.
We're just more used to the japenese versions and they've rooted as slangs.

 

[sorarinnie]

@Keimichi Oh that's super interesting! I think there is an equivalent that sort of statement in Japanese slang by saying マジ神 ("maji kami," i.e. really god-level). It can be used for a variety of things though, like an application that does everything you need it to. So it has the same connotation of top-of-the-top or super good. It works in English too, now that I think about it? But tbh I'd use マジ神 for inanimate objects or possibly the skills a person has rather than the person directly.
And yeah, 穿越 isn't an actual word I've ever seen before (and just checked the dictionary and it doesn't come up lol, but I would maybe pronounce it "senetsu" in Japanese) but I would guess it means something like dig beyond (literally) or dig beyond (time) because 穿る (dig up or look at up close) + 越す・越える (go beyond/exceed/pass time). So a bit off from pass through but it could work? ^ ^'

 

[Keimichi]

@sorarinnie yeah, makes sense! In chinese it's more like an hononary title. You'd call someone 大神, basically big/mighty god. One that's more familiar to English mango readers is prob "goddess" which all male characters seem to use to refer to the best looking girl.
Yeah, would be something like that! Something you can make sense based on its literal meaning in Japanese and based on the context it's used, but not a slang so using the word without context would just bring confusion, as opposed to saying it to Chinese people who would probably immediately know the concept even without the context.

Alternatively, you also have a lot of loan words that seeped from Japanese into chinese... like loli 萝莉, which is just a phonetic of loli.

 

[sorarinnie]

@Keimichi Omg hahaha, IDK if I've ever seen a kanji version of loli, I've always written it in katakana! I'll have to go look it up!