Have a section for manga pages for groups recruiting for certain roles

[MooPoint]

seems like something that would get more visiblity than in the forums or discord

similarly, maybe in the group page, having a "recruitment" section that shows the desired manga/roles would attract more people to try to join?


example idea:

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

The recruitment section could be a good addition.

I think it might help if you elaborate on the first idea.

 

[sterven]

If people already don't care enough to either a.) read recruitment/credit pages or b.) go to the group page/forum section what makes you think this will give them a bigger incentive?

 

[BestBoy]

They can already do this in their banner, or by occasionally providing recruitment updates in their group comments.

 

[MooPoint]

recruit/credit pages -> doesn't have up to date info. would also need to actively make chapters (takes up too much time esp when they lack the ppl they're trying to recruit for)

forums -> very low visibility + need to constantly bump

banner -> too much work/effort, should be for a group banner not for recruitment



maybe it's just that 99% of people don't wanna do any work, but point is to make it more accessible for groups to manage recruitment, and for it to be discovered. i want to believe that having a real group recruitment/application system in place would at least bring better visibility with lower management.


esp, if you look at the "Info -> About" (https://mangadex.org/about)

Mangadex is made by scanlators for scanlators...

honestly, it seems to be lacking in the "for scanlators" department

 

[pandascepter]

@MooPoint
This is a good one, but do you have any solution to manage the section ?

+ 1 if you have a good solution though.

 

[MooPoint]

i'm sure that if our very capable devs think this is a good idea, they can work towards some solution(s).

 

[Syanindita]

@sterven @bestboy
I think this is quite a good idea. The ads recrutment on banner can be expired.
If you publish a banner's ads in today's chapter and only to find the someone apply to it 2 years later. ...... @Moopoint

 

[BzzBzz]

> recruit/credit pages -> doesn't have up to date info
If new release doesn't have up to date info that only means that group don't give a fuck about recruitment.
Expecting "up to date" info on credit page of 2 years old release makes no sence, it's 2 years old ffs!

> would also need to actively make chapters
Of course you have to actively release chapters. If you release 1 chapter per year I don't think any one would like to join this group.

> takes up too much time esp when they lack the ppl they're trying to recruit for
What are you talking about? Typing "recruiting for bla-bla-blah" then styling it a bit doesn't even take one minute.

 

[sterven]

maybe it's just that 99% of people don't wanna do any work, but point is to make it more accessible for groups to manage recruitment, and for it to be discovered.

So the gist of this is that laziness should be rewarded/encouraged cool.

i'm sure that if our very capable devs think this is a good idea, they can work towards some solution(s).

To top it all off you're proposing something on which you have no concrete plan for great.

 

[JJTheWeeb]

the question becomes how is the group page more visible than forums (which mind you have a "groups" section for people looking to help)?

There's also the fact that well, it's per group, unless there was a hub of group recruitments... oh wait, like the groups forum, which also shows all groups, rather than just the one you're visiting.

maybe adding another tab in the latest posts tab for groups would work, but the question becomes, what do groups want, is it enough with what they have (cause a section won't remove credits pages, where's the encentive to check, and if they aren't willing to communicate on other platforms, how will they communicate afterwards?

tl:dr just ask groups if what they have is enough rn (the "for scanlators" refers to their rights mostly: if a group wants delays so people check their sites, that exists, credit pages? as long as within reason, want to leave?, they'll remove releases from the site to respect their wishes, want to advertise postions? well use your credit pages)

 

[BestBoy]

@MooPoint All your excuses boil down to it being too much work. As for MD being for scanlators, that's mostly just for respecting their wishes when it comes to uploads.

 

[MooPoint]

the whole point of suggestions is to ask for something to make life better/easier.

it's really amusing how people here like to pretend that they have any authority in their words here.

suppose the actual devs reject this idea. sure, np.

suppose they like the idea - given this topic they can work towards a solution given the listed problems. if they can't they can ask others, in this topic or elsewhere, for more concrete ideas.

 

[comeonnow0]

Not all suggestions are created equal. It's true that MD Staff have the final say, but many of the criticisms presented thus far are valid to a certain extent.

 

[schlo]

Have a section for manga pages for groups recruiting for certain roles

what exactly do you envision here if it is not part of the forums? More elaboration might help your point. If you are talking a tab on the manga area itself, I don't view that area as owned by a specific group plus I'm guessing many jump to the chapter so would miss it. I don't see looking at the forums as that much work. If anything my suggestion would be to work on better titles in the group forum, maybe Proofreader needed - group xyz, Cleaner needed - group abc, Multiple positions open - group mno. Basically making it easier to spot something you might feel comfortable helping with.

it's really amusing how people here like to pretend that they have any authority in their words here.

I see variations of this comment periodically. I don't view it as authority but as voicing an opinion and possibly increasing awareness. While some options are less work then others they all take up some resources or delay release dates. It seems perfectly reasonable for someone to voice their opinion on the value of some option that may lead to bloat, not another options off the table or push back releases. From an awareness perspective it may make a developer think of something they hadn't thought of or question the value of it a little more, basically it may be doable but is it worth the effort given already available options, in this case the Group forum. Many developers are prone to wanting to add in bells and whistles, overestimating or underestimating the value of the option or the implementation time required or just how many really want the option. Voicing opinions and making comments in threads like this can remind devs of problems or issues that they may have overlooked otherwise.

People providing counter views and opinions should not be looked at as a negative and should be welcomed.

 

[MooPoint]

you make some good points schlo, so i'll respond as best as i can

I don't view that area as owned by a specific group

for sure, but i don't think i was proposing that. when i first created this thread, i was just thinking of a tab right next to "covers" that would just list out groups recruiting for x role for y language. no group would technically "own" the manga.

if i were to assume that your understanding of my suggestion is the same as the others, i'll give a general picture of what i was thinking:

and that group pages would have something similar.

I don't see looking at the forums as that much work.

not many people use the forums vs visiting the manga page itself. yes, better titles CAN help. what doesn't help is that we can't edit titles. what doesn't help is that the group recruitment is near the bottom of the forums, and isn't even titled for recruitment. what doesn't help is that if you were interested in helping translate the CN manga "steam world" you'd possibly have to sift through 30 pages to find one POTENTIALLY active group. long titles aren't helpful as it gets skimmed through. less reading is better as it holds the attention.


the counter views quite frankly seem to be missing that point. the forums sucks. sifting through it sucks. "laziness" is the primary objection i'm observing. which is a ridiculous retort - all your lives have been built upon the lazy - by having mangadex aggregate manga for you, by the fact that you have google to search the web for you, et. al. basically trolls doing what they do best, and by acknowledging them as i am now is just allowing them to stroke themselves even harder.

this isn't a discussion about how devs work in the world either. that holds 0 relevance as "it is known" (or "it should be known" may be more correct) by the mangadex devs already. if this is a feature that they think is good and doable, then can mark it as planned or reject it if they don't.

 

[sterven]

it's really amusing how people here like to pretend that they have any authority in their words here.

et. al. basically trolls doing what they do best, and by acknowledging them as i am now is just allowing them to stroke themselves even harder.

Guess criticizing suggestions now constitutes as trolling. _{(lol I know i'm not helping my case with all the gifs and all but that's how I mainly communicate in the forums)}

 

[JJTheWeeb]

The whole point of using the forums or credits pages is to get people who actively want to help groups put in the effort to show they aren't gonna just half-arse anything. Even if you say forums aren't viewed by many, I doubt the people not looking at the community would be the people loking to join it. There's also the trolls you mentionned. having the recruitment convos happen on MD makes it easier for low-effort trolls to just spam groups with requests, since it's much easier than contacting someone on discord or smt and then having to converse about the situation.

If the person applying didn't put in much effort to know the group they are joining (being in their discord or chatting with the leaders) idk how much the groups could trust these would-be strangers. And add to that, you mentionned credits pages being outdated. Wouldn't their posts in the "recruitment tab" lead to the same thing? It also depends on how many people apply in the first place. and since groups are always looking for people, I doubt the market for roles is filled with people looking to help. Also, if such a recruitment page did exist, then once someone is hired, wouldn't they have to move to the current situation (the prefered social media such as discord)? It's adding an extra step to a non-issue.

tl:dr
-if the person applying didn't bother reaching out, would people really trust in that person to properly do their job?
-wouldn't this make it easier for the trolls you mentionned just spam the feed of groups with fake applications?
-isnt this just adding a step before the "contact us on [blank]" since not many groups use MD to discuss and share files and all that

The whole reason I respond is just cause I wonder what the purpose of this suggestion would be? Do groups need it? shouldn't it be groups asking for things to help them (unless you contacted others, but it'd be best to state that group leaders want such a feature) and when weill v5 come out?

 

[MooPoint]

thank you JJTheWeeb for your feedback.

having the recruitment convos happen on MD makes it easier for low-effort trolls to just spam groups with requests, since it's much easier than contacting someone on discord or smt and then having to converse about the situation.

i think that's a moot point - there's technically nothing stopping trolls from spamming them on Mangadex nor on discord. even this forum is built upon a foundation of expected good behavior.

Wouldn't their posts in the "recruitment tab" lead to the same thing?

people forgetting to close their recruitment threads? yes that is a very real possibility. maybe a good solution would be for mangadex to auto-close the threads after some amount of time has passed. there's lots of ways to deal with stale recruitment.

if the person applying didn't bother reaching out, would people really trust in that person to properly do their job?

i would not equate the ability to do a job to the effort needed to both find the appropriate group + reach out to them. they're fairly unrelated.

there are many things mangadex can do with recruitment threads - the most obvious being to link it to a forum thread (like how chapter comments are made). suppose the first post (OP) asks to be contacted in x email or y discord. if someone cared to apply, they'd do exactly that, would they not?

i'll reiterate - the reaching out/discovery of group recruitment needs to be made accessible.

isnt this just adding a step before the "contact us on [blank]" since not many groups use MD to discuss and share files and all that

i'm not advocating for making group discussions a thing, or sharing files, etc. while that's potentially a good suggestion, that is not what this is about. i'm advocating for making it more accessible for groups to recruit / potential recruits to find groups to apply to. it's possible that this may add the extra step, but the fact of the matter is that potential recruits would have never contacted anyone due to the lack of visbility for what groups are recruiting for.

 

[schlo]

now that I see what you are talking about I would suggest putting it under the info dropdown at the top if it were to be implemented. People using the follows can go straight to the chapters bypassing the whole title page so it could still be easily missed.

Commenting, criticizing, caring about the interface and a site that you like is not trolling. Talking, communicating, discussing, none of these are bad, none of these are trolling.

The discussion about the developers is relevant because it can affect the site and what gets implemented. Often developers, planners, designers of all types love adding little stuff or hate turning down requests. There is a reason the term Mission Creep, Scope Creep ... exists. There is a reason that projects miss deadline or in some cases even fail or perform horribly. As far as good, the developer by themselves may not have a complete view of how everybody uses the interface or how much various parts are used or not used. So input both for and against should be useful.