Author Plz teach me Economy, thx
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I have a story in mind which is basically a Death Note-like economical war.


Backstory:
The setting is a theocratic authoritative kingdom set in a world where crystals grow on plants. The religion believes that their god is the manifestation of progress thus any scientific progress is viewed as worship. Not having the religion is synonymous to hindering progress (not necessarily true) and atheists are heavily discriminated against. Certain crystal plants grow in certain climates and the story's time within this series' timeline is set where the science of plant heredity has just began to develop and they are experimenting to create new crystals. There are also no other religions because the god that created it is too lazy to create other religions and the series is not far enough yet where new religions naturally develop.

Also, yes, this is the same world as my conlang project.


Plot:
A royal accountant has just convinced the king after a long debate with the kingdom's inner core that economy will work out in the long run. The system had only just began but someone had already attempted to devalue the currency from the get-go. The royal accountant has no idea who this is but the readers will. The royal accountant uses his reach, social connections, and tactitions in the Division of Economics of the kingdom to fix the economy while hunting down the man meanwhile he have the skills, reach, and anonymity to pull off impressive feats which threaten to bring down the newly-developed economy.


Economy:

Backstory:
Soldiers are tasked to expand the kingdom's territory in order to obtain land to grow crops and crystal plants for the growing population and developing scientific community. There was no economy at this time so the kingdom rewarded the soldiers with a cooked, warm meal. This used to be a world where people eat fruits from a plant made by the god. This plant is made to be able to grow forever as long as it's in the equator's climate. Eating any sort of cooked or even processed food is a luxury. The chefs were in turn bribed with a luxurious home and the builders were bribed by cooked foods. This was the pre-currency economy.

One day, there were not enough chefs for a soldier so the king gave him one of his rings. He told him to tell the chef that they owe him a meal and to give them his ring as proof. Note that since weapons can be made from crystals, metals were essentially just shiny rocks (at least until they discover electricity). Rings were typically just wood decorated with shiny metals ores that could be found on the ground. Still, these were too fancy that the normal citizen wouldn't be able to possess it. No one bothered picking up those shiny rocks and the only one fascinated by them is the king who would love to have them as accessories.

Soon several soldiers got these rings because of the chef shortage. They eventually figured that they can hoard several rings at a time since fruits are absolutely free to eat so they won't starve and then get several meals worth in a single dinner. Basically it's like having three sandwiches for lunch. They even traded it with each other to bribe them to do menial tasks for them. Eventually one of the soldiers asked someone that's not a soldier to do such a thing and gave the non-soilder a ring. When that person asked for a meal, the chef reported it to the kingdom as they were unsure of what to do.

Everyone involved was called to the inner core of the kingdom and there was a debate about wether this behaviour was acceptable and in the end, the person who would become the royal accountant took interest in this trade and see it as the next step in bartering. Using religion and progress as his argument, everyone, including the king, became convinced that economy can work. So they started mass-producing accessories as currency.

Currency:
Blank parts mean I haven't worldbuild. There are other stuffs there so just skip to the part where you see tables and read the text above and below them.
Here's a Google docs link.

Post-currency economy:
-Chefs are to keep their recipes top secret as the currency is valued upon the trade of food by the correct people.
-Chefs are trusted to maintain the economy which places them even higher in terms of how high the job occupation is with being in the inner core of the kingdom set as the highest alongside being king.
-Chefs are to return the accessories back into the kingdom treasury since they have no use for currency based on the dishes they themselves are capable of making.
-Everyone went along with the economy thing since soldiers get food which more closely ties in to the effort they put into their job which they deem as fair. Non-soldiers also get to eat cooked foods now so there's no way they're refusing this.
-Trade of service for currency is now legal in any job professions.

TL;DR:
It's wearable currency whose value is based on food. Being a chef is also a very important job.


Miscellaneous information:

• The man's first move is to set up proxy chefs which sells food worth king's medals in the price of rings in order to devalue the currency. This is done because the king likes omelettes, a very easy meal to make which would have been worth rings if the King had not like it. This immidietely set a discord between the inner core and the cooks as they believe that there's a mole among the chefs.

• There is a fictional political spectrum in place: the progressive-pragmatic scale.
-Extreme progressive: take all questionable risks and fight through the hard times because any sort of progress is worth any risks. It doesn't matter how many bones break, as long as no one dies, continue to fight through until success can be seen.
-Extreme pragmatic: stop and trace back your steps as soon as the progress gets stale or any littlest negative consequence can be perceived. Small scratch? That thing is probably not worth your time, move on to another project, now.
~Royal accountant is far progressive and the guy trying to break the economy is far pragmatic.
P.s. I didn't come up with this myself, I have a few Discord friends who helped made this political spectrum.

• One of the man's reason to destroy the economy is that he predicts class discrimination between the wealthy and the poor considering that currency is wearable and people will boast their riches. He predicts that fruits will seem like an insult as people value currency more while the class divide grows. And as soon as he saw the first bit of jealousy and class discrimination in his local town, he immidietely took action.

• The royal accountant will eventually win, obviously. The series after this story needs some kind of economy but not without an incredible influence from the multiple attempts at crashing the economy and doubts placed by the public thanks to that man. I haven't figured out the details yet but this is might be the ending.



So... anyone got any economy guides that I can learn for free on the internet? I did look up a few basic economy lessons but I feel like they're educating for schools rather than for fictional economical warfare - which... is fair. That's why I'm asking for help looking for a more pinpoint education so I don't get lost in educational noise. I'm specifically looking for study guides that can help me think of moves for the main characters and even third party side characters to make as the story goes on.

I'm thinking of something like abolishment of wearable currency and primitive credit cards run using magic crystals as its mechanism, maybe even involving clockwork as clockwork is the theme of the next story in this series so this story may be a stepping stone towards the clockwork era. I don't know, I haven't set up the plot and character personalities beyond motivation yet. Anything goes rn.

Thx for reading this far and any help anyone offers.
Last edited 10 mo ago by DANDAN_THE_DANDAN.
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Dandan you should be tired, go to sleep my man.

1. Buy a book
2. After reading the books, give us some explaination, maybe we will give you some way.
3. Internet is a huge place, tried to go QnA website like quora, yahoo answer, etc.
4. Time for the education
5. Make a conclusion
6. Bang you've achieve the peak.
Last edited 10 mo ago by pandascepter.
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@pandascepter Pffffft... It's only 1 am and I only spent 2 hours writing this to make sure that I didn't present any errors. Ha, I totally don't have a solo literature review due in 2 days which I have not began researching yet hahaha...
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Dude come on man, just sleep, it will helped you to get some wise decision.

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Yup, Indonesia. GMT +7. Imma go now, gn.
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Keikaku doori.
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It seems the "extreme progressives" aren't "extreme" enough if they're just letting the knowledge and techniques of chefs a secret to prevent an economic collapse. No, we need some "radical extreme progressives", maybe they're some dissents from the extreme progressives spectrum like they could be much more devout than the others or something, they'd view anything including people as nothing but numbers to "consume" in the name of progress (got the idea from Youjo Senki). Almost like a proto-cult.

They'd reason that if cooking is so important to progress, then everyone should be able to cook, and they'd try to spread as much as information about how to cook and such. They may also attempt at inventing paper money and banks. (I mean what the king did was similar to how paper money was invented in our own world, except rings are heavier and flashier than papers.)

But it may conflict with your other character whose trying to ruin the economy. Of course, it doesn't really hurt having multiple actors.
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First, there are several loopholes in your story. If you're going to center the story in a political and economical pov, then you need to define REALLY well the resources, the incentives, the motivations that bind the economy and society. For example: Adam Smith postulated that we are moved by an "invisible hand" that compels us to act in a way that is beneficial to us, but inadvertently also is to the society (this is oversimplified, just a taste to illustrate a point); Marx on the other hand focuses on the control of the means of production, the struggle of the classes, the awareness of the workers regarding the value of their effort amongst other things (hey, it's late here....).

I think "Genjitsushugisha no Oukokukaizouki" has good references for a manga using economics . "Sanctuary" is also an interesting manga regarding politics and the relation economy-workers (a couple of chapters, at least).

Second, I suggest reading Penguin History of Economics by Roger Backhouse (as seen in https://www.amazon.com/Penguin-History-Economics-Professor-Backhouse/dp/0140260420, but you can find a free pdf version available online - i didn't put the link here because I don't know if it is against the rules). This book is really interesting and will give you with an overall image of economic evolution of humankind, that might provide you some insight for your story.
Also there are a couple of simple economic concepts you can learn in any economic literacy website, or microeconomics books (I suggest checking the economics materials lectured in highschools in your country...)

Edit: forgot to mention Economics by Paul Samuelson & William Nordhaus, the bible of any economics student.

Edit2: just read the final part of your post lol. You need to have a firm grasp of how economics works to draw a consistent plot to a story based on it, I believe. For example: where do the materials to make sandwiches comes from? are they controled fully by the state and all the workers there are rewarded with medals or not? scientific progress is rewarded or not (all people are pious or not)? if so, it is rewarded by god or by man? the decision to focus on progress, war, cooks is determined how? a lot more simple questions can be asked that determine the basic functioning of your society, thus determine the type of economic system.

Sorry about being picky, but i can't think about how to solve your problem any other way....

Don't know if this is what you wanted but hope it helps
Last edited 10 mo ago by draconeo.
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As an introduction to the field, I'd suggest a book called "Naked Economics."

I will also advise you that what you are looking into is called Macro Economics, and specifically about currency.

What you're setting up is Commodity Money as opposed to fiat money. Here's a brief description of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money
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Ooh wow thx for the info so far.

@AK140 I love your version of extreme progressive. I thought that human life was the limit but it seems that I was mistaken.

@draconeo There's a lot to lore dump here so... have fun reading.


And thx for the useful links @draconeo @Tamerlane

I spent 50 minutes writing this wow


Also, another worldbuilding which someone may find interesting:
Last edited 10 mo ago by DANDAN_THE_DANDAN.
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@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN if i have the time i'll talk about new questions that appeared with the answers to the questions, but for now I'd like to give you a new set of food for thought:

As I understood, this is not the only kingdom, right? What is the power system in this world, continent? Who controls the resources (the kingdom, other kingdoms, savages)? Are resources scarce or can be destroyed?
I ask this because economic systems and currencies have different sets of requirements (when compared with other economic systems and currencies): for example, the perception of value and property will depend on the type of economy (for instance, if government determines the value, market will be biased and maket failures will happen as value is essencially an individual concept), and the answer of the government to the presence and accepted level of atheism, free thought and free will also depends on how the story is to develop.

The healing kingdom is a very interesting proposal, and i look forward to see how the story unfolds.

Perhaps looking at the economic history of north korea, china and soviet union will give you valuable insight regarding this part. Iran would be better but middle eastern economic history is highly influenced by geopolitics and religion (different views of islam).

Perhaps you should consider introducing other gods, or different balances regarding war, because that would explain better a conflict between 2 nations; the alternative would be common religion being self-centered and selfish. I'm not very clear about this point, but unless there are some clear differences or different goals between the kingdoms, trade, aid and diplomatic relations would be enough to prevent any wars.....

Also commodity based currencies require an adequate level of the commodity to back them up.... perhaps you can check for silver-standard or gold-standard currency "wiki" and how they work, because for example there is a need to have a check system in place that garantees the integrity of the "coin" (if you have a gold coin that represents a certain value and you scrape it off a bit, you get a gold coin and gold dust, for example). Wars are also good factors to induce stress in these kinds of economic systems, as the kingdom will need to emit more currency to face the increase in expenses, increase/substitute lost human resources, etc. etc.

You need to define as well as you can the wages of the society as this will influence your story from the beginning. You work on what you have the skills, knowledge and (if possible) personal interest; however, you choose to do a specific job or work in a specific area not only influenced by these aspects but also to fulfill your expectations - the key-word for your story. Money or rewards become important right now, as you strive harder to satisfy your needs, so if the kingdom allows people to distinguish themselves or have a different horse, armor, weapon people will work harder to have the means to get them.

PS: I also think you need to think about the level of corruption of the system: too much in an early stage will create unrest and conflict within, speeding the need to change the system.

Sorry if this is all mixed up, but different questions and ideas kept popping up (of course, there is also the possibility of this being a bunch of nonsense but in that case just ignore it, lol). Hope it helps
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wow, I wish I had your imagination.

Re the "learning" economics thing, I won't point at this or that specific book, but just say that personnally I got a better "understanding" of economics while reading history, sociology, anthropology, psychology, novels, mangas !!!, whatever really, than when I was studying hard theory for its own sake. So my advice would be to read about subjects more or less relevent to your fantasy world and even better, that are also of interest to you personnally, because it's simply much more fun and rewarding. And it has the advantage of (hopefully) keeping a more open-minded approach to the analysis of socio-economic phenomena, because as a social science, and in particular as the "sinews of the war", economics really is a political minefield where it's hard not to end up indefinitely in a trench.

So your world is set in a feudal environment ? In these covid times you could read about the Black Death during the 14th century, and how labour scarcity reshaped economic relations between classes. You want to deal extensively with money, credit and debt ? You may just follow up on what's going on right now or no earlier than 2008 with governments and central banks trying to contain the crisis by giving out shit loads of money, but not to anybody; or read about the impact of the arrival of all the gold and the silver on the european markets after the plundering of the new world. You have a caste/guilde system in place (cooks, gatherers ?) ? You can read how the latter worked in medieval Europe and the former is still evolving in India, and how it interacts with globalization. You have free food growing out of the trees ? Some would argue that's a big reason why some civilizations in bountiful environments were very stable and didn't have a fundamental drive to innovate, go to wars of expansion, and eventually build up big states and corporations.

Etc, etc, you probably get the gist (and sorry if my examples were mainly centered around the so-called Western world). Then when there are theoritical references & scholar quotes within practical cases, you can check them out if you feel like it, not the other way around. Good luck !
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@draconeo Oh my bad, I didn't describe the backstory of the world well enough.



And this,
PS: I also think you need to think about the level of corruption of the system: too much in an early stage will create unrest and conflict within, speeding the need to change the system.

Yeah I definitely should. Too much and the story will be short-lived. Too little and there won't be anything interesting without the need for time skips. Any tips in striking this balance?


@meltingspot Thx for the praise!

As for who owns what...


And also, this
You have free food growing out of the trees ? Some would argue that's a big reason why some civilizations in bountiful environments were very stable and didn't have a fundamental drive to innovate, go to wars of expansion, and eventually build up big states and corporations




Also thx for the extra tips both of you, I'll read those references when I get a break from school!
Last edited 9 mo ago by DANDAN_THE_DANDAN.
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[url]https://www.investopedia.com/insights/what-is-money/ [/url]. Investopedia is a well-known economic and financial literacy site (good starting point to search for answers).

About the corruption, every country has it. In short: corruption only exists if it is lucrative or there is some kind of "moral failure" (loss of credibility in institutions and societal values, interaction between government and people, basic human greed and impunity). to keep it short maybe highlight a scheme between several types of workers something like petty crime that is acknowledge and exists. The importance you give it will influence your story and can change the way it develops altogether so be careful.

kingdom knows or not, kingdom finds out and implements checks or not (peer review), who does the corrupting and who is corrupted (atheists vs religious, nobles/merchants vs minimum wage workers, small crime rings between different workers, man vs accountant), how the corruption is discovered (research not having pratical results, imbalance in the reward system - a sudden increase of sandwiches, an abrupt low level of the stockpile, peers "snitching" each other to replace them in the hierarchy, etc...), what conflicts arise from corruption (between classes, between peers, between religions, between countries, accountant vs the man and his network), the impact (small ignored crime, significant crime that can lead to irreversible change or weaken institutions, the first contact and battle between accountant and the man).
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@draconeo Oh I like your examples, thanks for the help. I can imagine the beginning of the economy being extremely bumpy especially with the man manipulating behind the scenes to orchestrate a corruption of maybe several of your examples.

The accountant imagines that economy will be as simple as bartering and that everything will go well. Economy will come with very many disadvantages and messes although it's one that can help society trade much more easily. His character will be one of naive optimism who was the first of his field and have no past experience to learn from. He wants all the good without any of the bad and when the man exploits his system and orchestrate a massive corruption event run by multiple parties without knowledge of each other whom he manipulated to occur all at once, it will break his spirit down so much that he wouldn't even want to play his finishing move that he had been planning from the very beginning. As his colleagues watch him break down, they themselves decide to fix the system which had just been attacked from all sides and once they're done, they return to him to fix his spirit as well.

Man I can see their characters now.
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glad to help...
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Corruption, eh?
High profile, working class, high sum, low sum... So many forms of corruption, beautiful, almost as beautiful as all the different forms of cancer! Good fucking riddance I hate corruption. That's why we cannot have nice things.


From my family history, years ago in some soviet shithole:
Be poor and work in a shoe factory, now make some shoes disappear and exchange them for butter, richest family ever, I mean shoes and butter! Sounds like theft and not corruption? Well... Anyway, nothing was properly checked or accounted...

Get on the waiting List to finally leave the Kommunalka (shared tiny flat/apartment stuffed with a bunch of families, pure joy!!1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment ) but waiting is like 10 - 20 years, after half the wait time... Bribe with a "shitton" of your shoe-potato-butter-money -rubles someone who is a bit higher up in the communist party, this suddenly halves the remaining time which means it reduced the time by 2-5 years, great!!1

You want some paper work done in your shithole? Naaah, or you just have to wait additional 2 months unless you pay some Dollars, how about 0,5-2 months worth of pay? Ehh, suddenly it can be done in the stated time and takes just a bunch of weeks at best? Who would have thought!

So you heard me shit talk the party? I did not, but mentioning the precursor state (maybe shithole ;D) before ours turned into a soviet shithole or just mentioning the name of the previous factory owner (filthy Bourgeoisie scum, capitalist pig!) before it got "acquired" by the party "for the people" got me in trouble? I did neither, I just mentioned that "previously" our technical or mechanical work process was like that or this... I am fucked?
Ehh, either I get Gulag'd ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag ) or harassed (at least for a while) by the KGB, hope I do not disappear. Fast forward, the KGB forced me to visit their office daily, my wife fetched me every day so I do not disappear (on the way, you know, there are certainly wolves in urban Shitholinsk, dire wolves I tell ya!). Since I am not the smartest, my wife instructed me or rather had to instruct me what to say to the KGB dudes (bless her!), she also prepared some expensive presents for somewhat important party members and others, they vouched for me being a good communist and such, so after a year my forced visits stopped, not gonna miss the KGB station, I can tell ya that much! There was never a better wife, saved my life, love her to death!


Some more recent examples which I had encountered (fml :DD):
There is a big huge ass house, basically a 8 or 10 floor mini skyscrapper, neat but old thing. Gets sold and the new owner or company does not maintain that beauty and it turns (in)to shit. Why? Well, you save money if you don't maintain it! Ha! Anyway, so the 100 or so people living there are drowning in shit and piss thanks to shitty pipes, mold is forming factions on and in and off the wall and doing battle with eachother. The gutters on the roof do not get cleaned either so sometimes flats/apartments drown if a downpour happens... Someone complains and requests some fixing?
Naaah, you send someone for 50 bucks to go into the flat at a random time, I mean if the person with the problem is there you just enter, say it is all fine and leave, if the person is not at home, tough luck I guess? 50 bucks instead of 300 or 500 or 2500, now that's saving money, I tell ya! Why is no one suing the owner to death? All the people with enough mental fortitude and intelligence left the first 10 years while the big ol' house was falling apart, now only people on the dole or social benefits are left and advocates are less expensive than a full repair. ;)
Protipp: Never acknowledge the problem unless your ass is on fire, just phone and lie. Written... Documents are gonna fuck ya up, never admit your guilt in written form. The house is fine. ;)

City plans a huge project, costs like 100 or 250 or 1000 Million bucks. A private company has contracts which have huge penalties for delays, like 10000 or 50000 or more bucks for each day past deadline, but the city negotiated no such thing. 5 years too late the thing is done for 5 or 10 or 20 times the cost, some things have yet to be fixed... Nice. A healthy mix between incompetence and corruption. There goes the tax money I guess.

I have more stories but cannot be arsed to write them down.


While the state and economy should cooporate, lobbists are cancer.
Last edited 9 mo ago by BirchJuice.