The Last Saiyuki and the Thoughts of Publishing Proffesionally vs. Self Publishing

[May_Lily]

Last night I learn that a manga series I have been following titled The Last Saiyuki by Nonoue Daijirou was ending real soon (though it has ended by the time I learn of it from checking the page on this website this morning). Learning of this surprise me as well as made me feel a bit bum, especially when I just started taking the time to get caught back up with the story after not reading the chapters for a while due to being occupy with other things. The story I felt was getting better with each chapter and I love theme it was going with. It turns out from looking into this that the manga was not doing well popularity wise and so was decided the story would wrap up prematurely. It was basically cancelled.

Someone on the forum of Anime News Network in which the cancellation of The Last Saiyuki was being discussed shared part of a short essay a person that goes by the name RainSpectre published on twitter which explains what had happened to the series and why it failed despite having a good quality story that showed promise and a growing fan base. You can read the full essay here: https://twitter.com/RainSpectre/status/1145992285764501504

Reading the essay reminded me of something that has been on my mind recently. I have been thinking if self publishing or publishing online is a better alternative in the long term then publishing under a company. Granted this would depend on the person and what they want because there are certainly advantages and disadvantages to choosing one over the other. In the case of Shounen Jump on one hand a person does not have to worry about advertising their story since it would be taken care of bu the publishing company. Plus as the essay pointed out the algorithm Shounen Jump has at the present makes the creators put more time in their planning process instead of just adding random stuff to move the story forward. However those who are publishing in Shounen Jump have to worry about keeping their stories popular otherwise risk having their works discontinue like what happen in this case with Nonoue.

With self publishing or publishing online it seems that a creator can developed their story more organically without any pressure to keeping their stories popular or being force to write something that fits with what a publisher is looking for to sell. It also seems to allow more freedom in when and how they choose to work instead of being forces under a deadline which in the case of Shounen Jump (and any publishing magazine in Japan for that matter) can be very demanding to the point intense stress to the point of leading poor health which leads to illness, and a diminishing social life. Of course they would have to work into promoting their works, and given creators are working under their own time it can take sometime for either a story to move forward or update (depending on the work ethic of a creator).

So what are you all thoughts on this?

 

[LowSanity]

@May_Lily I get your feeling, there have been at least 20 titles i really enjoyed that have been axed or however you wanna name it.

I mostly agree with you on self vs proffesional publishing. I would be glad if it was more popular.
Let's just hope it's not gonna end up like self publishing in comics where media and industry answered with "alt-right" allegations, threats and so on.

 

[Sem]

@AbyssalMonkey

Eyyy, this is the first time I've actually seen someone bring this up as a talking point and I wholly agree!

Since creating webcomics has become way easier and more accessible the past few years, I've found myself wading through a swamp of poorly executed clones. The fault is not their own, I suspect most of these creators are very young and don't have the life experience or the writing experience to consider things like pacing, structure, paneling and long term planning.
That's what an editor is for.
The young age is I think, the primary cause behind so many of these comics being shallow and idealistic romances, or power fantasy wish fulfilment stories.

But the lack of filtering means anyone can make what they want and throw it out to an audience, regardless of how mediocre the idea is or how lacking they are in storytelling skills. The webcomic scene has become totally oversaturated with sparkly polished turds. And some unpolished turds too. The fact that they're often competing against each other instead of competing against seasoned veterans for an audience means they don't have to push that far out of their comfort zone either.

That's great if you're 15 and can't remember a previous era/have an insatiable appetite for the same stories, but I'm finding myself turning to older works more and more often, trying to find something worth my attention.

Also, while getting a manga cancelled is a sad thing, it usually doesn't mean the end of the author. Many of them take a break, reconsider their ideas, and then come back with second or third stories with significant improvements. Both used and unused ideas can be recycled. Horikoshi's My Hero Academia features a lot of similar themes and characters from his previous works, but My Hero Academia is undeniably a much stronger story than Oumagadoki Zoo or Barrage.

The author is like a phoenix. As long as they have willpower, they'll rise again from the ashes, even stronger. A cancellation is not necessarily always bad. It can be an opportunity for growth.

 

[PantsMan]

The Last Saiyuki

Frankly, that Twitter post just seems like someone who can't even wrap his head around their new favorite series getting axed, maybe because they're not too familiar with the general M.O. of weekly shonen magazines. Sounds like someone who's only really started dipping their toes outside of massively popular series. Far, far better manga have also gotten the chop, and for far less than something as axe-worthy as "sitting at the bottom of popularity polls throughout its run". Things like "lack of foresight and planning outside of major story beats" are just part of the format in weekly series; if you want more structured stories, look more into bi-weekly or monthly magazines.

To answer your actual topic, for as much as both novel and manga publishers get called out for being "unfair, glorified rackets", the difference in quality and especially professionalism I've seen between most published and self-published writing is near-incomparable. Doubly so in something that requires more personal drive and dedication as self-published comics/manga. Sure, it's easy to blame the meddling third party for your favorite manga going to shit or for it going against "the creator's vision". If webcomics and individually-driven passion projects have taught me anything, though, it's that there's no bigger threat to a good story than the creator themselves: trying to cram too much stuff in, constantly losing interest, weird story pacing as they often try to rush to "the good bits", letting the audience directly sway their writing decisions in awful "too many cooks" moments, going on weird tangents they are really passionate about but only detract from the work and more. Sure, these happen in published works too, but the establishment usually softens their impact, and usually only occur with huge giants of the manga industry like Togashi and Miura that are kept on a longer leash.

Not to mention, in my opinion manga editors have a far, far better track record than their Western equivalents, both in the choice of series they tend to axe and the times they step in and meddle.

EDIT: In hindsight, this is probably more of a Western issue with self-publishing that I'm ranting about. In Japan there's the doujinshi industry which is plenty productive and "professional", despite being entirely self-published and without much economic drive behind it. Don't know of any good, particularly long-running doujinshi/Twitter manga with a focus on serious, long-term story building like what @May_Lily and that Twitter post seem to be referring to, though.

 

[May_Lily]

@LowSanity

there have been at least 20 titles i really enjoyed that have been axed or however you wanna name it.

Ooh you had it worse then me. I believe this was the first for me of experiencing a series I was reading and getting invested in getting canceled (at least from memory as I do not recall having this problem prior till now). Thanks!

Let's just hope it's not gonna end up like self publishing in comics where media and industry answered with "alt-right" allegations, threats and so on.

I am not so familiar with what goes on within the American comic book industry so I do not know about those situations.


@AbyssalMonkey

Punishers give a lot of resources to their authors. Every step of the story writing process, they're there to assist. Arguably the most important part is the editor. Editors make sure that authors don't have glaring plot holes and keep the story on track. They also act as an assistant in terms of the creative process by being an outside influence on the development of the story, giving their feedback to the author so he can adjust the impacts his story beats hit.

There's nothing stopping a self publishing author from hiring an editor. The problem is that often times, the economics deny them that opportunity. They can be expensive if you want someone who does more than the barest minimum. The lack of an editor can be a death sentence to the writing of certain authors.

That is another good point concerning the ups of professional publishing and the downsides of self publishing. Unless a upcoming writer is from a rich background (or just makes a good amount of money somehow) it can be tough to keep an editor around. Publishing under a house a writer can get one without much trouble (at least if they get accepted by that house).

@Sem

while getting a manga cancelled is a sad thing, it usually doesn't mean the end of the author. Many of them take a break, reconsider their ideas, and then come back with second or third stories with significant improvements. Both used and unused ideas can be recycled. Horikoshi's My Hero Academia features a lot of similar themes and characters from his previous works, but My Hero Academia is undeniably a much stronger story than Oumagadoki Zoo or Barrage.

The author is like a phoenix. As long as they have willpower, they'll rise again from the ashes, even stronger. A cancellation is not necessarily always bad. It can be an opportunity for growth.

It's not like I am mourning for Nonoue's career, but more of disappointed that the story he was working on was cut short before it could reach it's full potential. With that said I can see that being the case much of the time for professional manga artist, and it is possible he could take what he has learn from The Last Saiyuki, as well as ideas he had for the story, and imply them for a future story whenever he decides to work on one (if he isn't now).

Also, I would say it's not so much willpower that keep professional manga artist (as well as anyone for that matter), but a strong desire. Willpower alone would not get anyone far due to how finite it is. Willpower is only useful when getting through tough times in the moment (such as pushing oneself to finish page despite how tire one feels for example or pushing oneself to weed that last section of a row despite how hot and tires one is). It's not useful in terms of getting through a long-term goal. Instead it's whether one wants something so badly that they are willing to work long and hard for it while making sacrifices in the process.