Adachi to Shimamura

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Ch. 7 - Shimamura at the Gym
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0DeIqJm4vM

I wanna be your yuri motherlover
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The truth why manga are awesome is those milfs. Every time mothers look like they got pregnant with the cutesy little MCs like they after they got their first period. Seriously. That Adachi mom, and the Shimamura mom i might add are so hot AF.
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Shimamura calling Adachi just to hear her voice for a little bit (even if she herself doesn't realize that's what it was) is the CUTEST shit. Nice to see more of her perspective, definitely felt that mood in my high school years too; at least she seems aware that her truancy and lack of responsibility will carry consequences sooner or later, though whether the sorta-rebellious teenager acts on it remains to be seen. Good chapter as always, thanks for your work @sneikkimies
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@Serenata

In general, those who assist on manga don't get any credit except perhaps in an afterword. It's not that different in the case of American comics books, except that, then, there isn't even an afterword in which to be mentioned, and this has been true even when the very best artists have pitched-in to help friends. (As when Frazetta helped Williamson or Krenkel.)

It's indeed possible to have very similar styles, especially when artists have worked together. That point subsumes the case of assistants. For that reason, one should especially look at characteristics that aren't good (which characteristics include those that are neither good nor bad but merely neutral), because a second artist wouldn't have been moved to imitate them.
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@mirewitch

No one asked you to beg. You launched a fallacious attack in response to my original comment. I've not subsequently offered you anything (whether you beg or not) except responses to your fallacies and misrepresentations.
Last edited 10 mo ago by Oeconomist.
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I bet she can't do a sit-up. She's a dark-haired female character, so...
Okay... That was pretty darn unexpected. But why did she want to know? I bet she wanted to flirt by making Adachi look cool. She was flirting, Adachi *nudge nudge* She was totally flirting with you.
Ow crap. Mom is pissed because you're lazy. Shit, she's really chewing her out :D "Damn lazy kids these days! "
Poor Shimamura's mom is harsh :( At least she can swim. Over eighty percent of manga characters are bums who can't swim.
Hey, Adachi! She's totally daydreaming about you. *nudge nudge *
Adachi mom be steaming with attitude.
A fated encounter? Oh no! Adachi! Your mom is gonna steal away the girl you're in love with!
This was a great chapter. Wow.
It was loads better than anything Nakatani Nio ever wrote in any case :D
Last edited 10 mo ago by Pachka84.
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Hey I'm just a random person reading the comments while listening to heavy metal music.

Just stating my own opinion, I myself don't think Nakatani helped with the art.
You can think differently, of course, it's just my opinion.

I am also absolute shit at expressing what I want to say in writing.
Last edited 10 mo ago by AgentKuga.
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@Oeconomist While I find their styles alike (and only after you mention it) like in some expressions or lines, it is really hard to say that it's a fact that Nakatani helped, What we know is that Nakatani has been very busy and still is very busy with her work (anime, manga, novel adaptation, stage play etc etc). And if they work for the same magazine, you could even argue that the one thing they had in common wasn't sharing their own skill but maybe they had the same assistant artist and these people aren't always credited.

Something else that doesn't quite makes sense is not mentioning her as assistant or helper, after all, now her name has weight, if she mentions this manga in social media or if they use her name to promote this work it would surely help the manga A LOT. But they didn't, is as if they didn't use Iruma's name in the novel for unknow reasons, you know?

You know at first I thought that Fairy Tail was made by Oda (one piece) and A LOT of people assumed that Eiichiro (fairy tail) was Oda's assistant because they all felt the same, but the reality was that both artist were hardcore fans of Dragon Ball and they were influenced by that work a lot and developed similar styles... Just saying, is not impossible to have similar styles.
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I'm tired of going back and forth with someone who seems to want everyone to beg them before they'll deign to support their assertions, so I'm going to stop doing so.

In other news, I really liked this chapter. This is a story that relies heavily on subtleties of narration to convey emotion, particularly with Shimamura, who is rather closed off emotionally. Manga can't do that in the way a novel can, but a good manga can compensate by communicating these subtleties in the art direction. This was what frustrated me about the 4-koma layout of the last series; we lost the benefits of a book, but didn't often gain the benefits of manga. This adaptation is far stronger in that way.

Take for example the scene of Shimamura in the pool. In the older adaptation, its skipped over almost completely, and is really only there so we understand why Shimamura is in a swimsuit when she talks to Adachi's mother. In Yuzuhara's adaptation, we get a wonderful little scene in which we explore Shimamura's self-consciousness about being the youngest person in the gym, her anxiety about her own inadequacies, and her attempts to deal with anxiety by withdrawing herself from other people. Shimamura sinks into isolation figuratively and literally, only coming up for air when she thinks of Adachi, one of the only people she's manged to form a strong connection with. Granted water/isolation metaphors aren't exactly original, but the execution is really strong, both thematically and artistically.
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@mirewitch
Why should I trust you conducted a deep analysis just because you said you did?
You shouldn't. You also shouldn't have busted-out a fallacious argument in response to my original remarks. If you had instead responded with “I don't see it” or with an equivalent, I probably would have at least made a beginning of showing where, how, and why to look. As it is, I'm dealing with people whom I don't like and don't want to help.
For someone obsessed with fallacies you sure do like appeals to authority.
Okay, so you don't at all know what “appeal to authority” means. An appeal to authority would be if I were to point to something like a page in A Guide to Manga on which it were asserted that Nakatani had contributed to the artwork. And, if that doesn't sound like a fallacious argument, it's because appeals to authority aren't always fallacious. It depends upon the context. In any case, I didn't use one here.
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@Oeconomist Why should I trust you conducted a deep analysis just because you said you did? You're a random internet person who hasn't shown me any evidence. For someone obsessed with fallacies you sure do like appeals to authority.
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@Kamui
Kamui:
your entire argument boils down to " I can tell! Trust me on this, guys!"
Okay, try to point to where I said that or anything like it. You cannot actually do so, because I didn't. Instead, before asking for an argument, you began arguing fallaciously. And, as I said elsewhere
Oeconomist:
Arguing fallaciously is like handing counterfeit money to me, it won't get me to do what the other person wants, unless what he or she wants is to argue about fallacies. (And sometimes I won't even do that.)

Kamui:
which is, frankly speaking, bullshit.
Frankly speaking, the bullshit here is yours. But I suspect that you were so lost in it that you didn't recognize it as bullshit.
Kamui:
Art styles are quite easily to emulate, even without intent. Anyone who has ever picked a pencil can tell you that.
Since you say that it's easy, why don't you post something that looks as if it were done by Frazetta, by Williamson, or by Steranko. And professionals often try yet fail to imitate some of the simplest styles.
Kamui:
So,
So you're either remarkably clueless or you've got so worked-up that you've lost sight even of what you do know, which wasn't enough to begin with.
Kamui:
unless you have some concrete evidence your "feelings" are worth shit.
Don't pseudo-quote me. Don't pseudo-quote anyone; it's dishonest. I wasn't referring to feelings and didn't use that word nor a synonym.
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@Oeconomist your entire argument boils down to " I can tell! Trust me on this, guys!" which is, frankly speaking, bullshit. Art styles are quite easily to emulate, even without intent. Anyone who has ever picked a pencil can tell you that. So, unless you have some concrete evidence your "feelings" are worth shit.
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Ahhh I’m lookin forward to the next chapter. And damn, I’m really relating hard to Shimamura myself as of late, especially with this new window into her perspective.

Can’t wait to see how the next fated interaction unfolds with this author’s approach-!
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@mirewitch
So with your C# example it is easy to verify.
It's meant to be easy to verify, because it illustrates a principle.
I think a better musical comparison is listening to a two similar-sounding bands in the same genre, and arguing the first band's guitarist is secretly in the second band based solely on listening to the second band's music.
That's a closer analogy, but the purpose of my analogy was to teach a principle, and some people wouldn't see that principle if one didn't start with an undeniable case. Afterwards, moving to closer analogies would be fine.
And that, much as your assertion that this is drawn by Nakatani Nio, is speculation.
And that illustrates that what you mistake for a better comparison is not. Some people are able to distinguish guitarists. I cannot, and you cannot; but some people can.

And I did not simply say that this were drawn by Nakatani; I said that she were contributing to it.
You just asserted she was like it was a fact, and only clarified you had no hard evidence when people asked you about it.
No. When questioned, I responded that I'd never heard or read of Nakatani's involvement; that's not the same thing as saying that I didn't have hard evidence. (It was, implicitly, the same thing as saying that i didn't have evidence of the sort that could be directly processed by those who needed something such as a press release or a report of Nakatani's remarks.) When fallacious objections were raised, I pointed to the fallacy. Again, doing so was not a denial of having hard evidence.

Were I the sort who could pick-out whether this or that guitarist participated in some performance, I might have to be paid to go to the effort of identifying distinctive moments; certainly any good will that I felt when I made the identification would be quickly erased were I confronted with a fallacious response, and so would not motivate me. Likewise for now pointing to specific aspects of specific panels in some of these episodes and explaining why they are tells, and why taken jointly they make the case. Arguing fallaciously is like handing counterfeit money to me, it won't get me to do what the other person wants, unless what he or she wants is to argue about fallacies. (And sometimes I won't even do that.)
Last edited 10 mo ago by Oeconomist.
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@Oeconomist So with your C# example it is easy to verify. Even people who can't distinguish a C# can listen to the tone from a website back-to-back with the note under dispute. I think a better musical comparison is listening to a two similar-sounding bands in the same genre, and arguing the first band's guitarist is secretly in the second band based solely on listening to the second band's music. And that, much as your assertion that this is drawn by Nakatani Nio, is speculation.

I agree it isn't an unfounded speculation; Yuzuhara-sensei and Nio-sensei have quite similar styles. Also both are serialized in Dengeki Diaoh, so its not out of the question that Nio-sensei assisted at some point in the creation process. But you didn't say "I think Nio might be assisting in this manga." You just asserted she was like it was a fact, and only clarified you had no hard evidence when people asked you about it. And that is both misleading and very rude to Yuzuhara-sensei. Its possible Yuzuhara-sensei just liked Nio-sensei's style and incorporated aspects of it into their own work, as most artists do with other artists they admire. Also remember that this is an adaptation of an existing work - its possible that Yuzuhara-sensei was hired specifically because they could produce work that is similar to Nio-sensei. Bloom Into You was one of the largest yuri manga of the decade, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the business people paying for this adaptation wanted an artist who emulated that style in hopes of emulating Bloom Into You's success. I have no concrete evidence this has happened obviously, but I have as much evidence as your theory, which is why I would say that both of us are just speculating.
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@SpiritusNox

What is it with these failures to ping the person to whom one is responding?
You probably shouldn't credit somebody's work to somebody else without being sure that somebody else was involved.
You definitely shouldn't insinuate that someone is not sure when they are.

I can't tell a Cโ™ฏ when I hear it. I'd like to be able to do so, and maybe someday I might learn; but I can't. However, I don't infer from my inability that no one can; I know that many people can. And when someone says that a note is Cโ™ฏ, I don't start arguing with him or her, on the jackass theory that if I can't tell that it's a Cโ™ฏ then no one can tell that it's a Cโ™ฏ.
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You probably shouldn't credit somebody's work to somebody else without being sure that somebody else was involved. It's pretty rude to the original artist.
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@Kamui

You are confusing “unfunded” with “unfounded”.

My assertion is not speculation; it's recognition. You could as well argue that claiming some shade of red to be red were merely speculation, or that some Cโ™ฏ were speculated to be Cโ™ฏ. Words cannot help the blind to see nor the deaf to hear. If the color were later somehow proved to your satisfaction to be red or the note to be Cโ™ฏ, you could still claim that those who earlier said that it were red or Cโ™ฏ had been speculating, and likewise if someone documents Nakatani's participation, you still could claim that I had only been speculating. *shrug*
Last edited 10 mo ago by Oeconomist.
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Because it is unfunded speculation. Like there are tons upon tons of shoujo manga, for example, with the same general style. That doesn't mean one or another author collaborated with the art on every single one of them. Nakatani's art style, while easily recognizable, is hardly unique.
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