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| 28 days ago
That fucker had it coming. Hot blooded friend delivered justice.
| 1 mo ago
What a bad opportunist... He could have just gone on pretending to be really sorry like a real opportunist but instead he just arrogantly reveals all his plans like a comic book villain to a hero...
| 9 mo ago
The dude: "Go with the flow"
Main character: "No"
The dude: "Objectify people for your own gain for future"
Main character: "No"
The dude: "GO STUDY"
Main character: "No"
| 10 mo ago
I think the real problem is that the Author had to make the new guy actually bad, Protag was literally ready to break all ties with Hamin, since joonwoo suffers from severe self hatred and for now only lowkey depression.
| 11 mo ago
Boy, this new villain relates.
| 1 year ago
I already expected this would be coming, but not in a very twisted way. Props to the author, good manwha! ?
| 1 year ago
The new guy pisses me off, but once again, he isn't wrong.
Props to the author, I don't think I ever related to antagonists so much before.
| 1 year ago
A legit psychopath, huh? I didn't see that coming. Certainly better than I was expecting from the end of the previous chapter.
| 1 year ago
@givemersspls No I'm calling you a troll because you're pretty much never refuting anything and even agreeing you may be wrong but just moving the goalpost or coming up with things that aren't there. Of course Junu treats his old enemy differently (no they were never friends, it was specifically said Junu was only friends with Taeyang and was barely even in the group)
They're treated differently because they are different. You speak of excusing myself when that's all you've been doing.
This will be the last because I should really stop feeding trolls.
| 1 year ago
XD was starting to lose hope that something was gonna happen
| 1 year ago
@givemersspls lol you're just trolling now. I don't know why I thought otherwise in the first place.
| 1 year ago
Let me put it this way if you don't understand.
Say someone kills someone else. If it was in defence of themselves then the motivation matters. However, it wouldn't matter in many other situations because its still murder and they'll still go to jail. It wouldn't matter if they became a muderer because of an escalation of the situation during robbery or because they just are a killer and felt the urge.
Its a common thing that the impact of motivation matter more or less depending on the circumstances and the general ability of others to be able to or want to empathise with them. In Junu's case, Taewon's motivation didn't matter and seeing as its very limited in coverage it also doesn't matter much to the story. Lila's would have been the same if it wasn't for her affect on Junu and the sympathy he has for her situation.
| 1 year ago
Uh...no. Your whole comments, plural, sound like you want to forgive Lila by inventing excuses.
It only sounds like that to you because of your extreme bias against her. I don't like Lila, AT ALL. Heck, I didn't even like Hamin much other than earlier chapters.
"Prejudice is bias. That's what it means. Prejudice literally means prejudging. Clinging to his old judgment in the face of new information IS prejudging! "
This (bolded part), by definition, is wrong. Prejudice is bias but not all bias is prejudice.
Do I expect every character to be portrayed the exact same way? Wrong question. I want more balanced. Yeah, there's bound to be differences. This is not mere differences. This is lopsided and skewed to hell in favor of Lila. There's a difference between random and clearly skewed. This is clearly skewed.
No you just want things lopsided against Lila.
Again, yes, Joonwoo isn't always right. The difference is that he is ultimately right. He ultimately carries the day. Even here, with this confrontation, he is shown to not have a good response to Sungouk's opportunism. Joonwoo is still depicted as having the moral high ground. That's easy to see that his words are appealing, that you shouldn't make friendships just to use people. Even if he can't put it into words, he is still portrayed as being right.
He's not portrayed as being right, he just comes off as being right because as a reader most agree, even if subconsciously that Sungouk is wrong. Its why even people who may agree with some of his points still think he's being portrayed as evil. Both characters just stated their own positions and its only MC sympathy and innate morals that determine who was seen as right or wrong there.
Again, your statements about their motivations shows your bias. You're asserting that Taewon's motivations aren't important. It's only unimportant if you don't want them to be important. Let's give an example. Lee Taeyang bullied Joonwoo and beat him up for about a year because Taeyang thought Joonwoo betrayed him. After the motivation for this was cleared up, they had somewhat of a reconciliation. Obviously not a full on back to friendship, but they were able to come to an understanding. Why is that impossible for Kim Taewon? Why is his motivation not important? It's because you don't want it to be important. You don't want to recognize that it could change the story.
Again you miss the obvious facts. For Taeyang they were friends before and the reason Junu hated him so much was because of that friendship that was crushed. The reason he partially squashed their beef is the motivation mattered, it mattered that he didn't turn on him for some foolish reason or some other reason he couldn't empathise with. You're basically proving my point for me here.
On the other hand Taewon's motivation means nothing to anyone but himself or someone who was similarly bullied and even then, hearing his motivation would only make them hate him more because if the other person was also suffering from unjust treatment and didn't come to the same conclusion then it only makes it look like Taewon would be innately more evil or just weak. I mean I really don't get how this is so hard to understand.
For Taewon's motivation to matter it would have to become fully a part of the story, other than just a flashback. There would also need to be an arc for him or at least his character and motivations would have to be present and in effect for people other than himself. That hasn't happened here.
| 1 year ago
You're whole comment just sounds like you wanted Lila to get a more rotten deal, just because.
Do you expect every character to be portrayed the exact same way? That doesn't happen in any story and never will. Lila isn't always shown crazy because her craziness is simply not as on the sleeve, its part of her character. Just because it isn't shown 24/7 doesn't it make it any less so. In fact most would say it makes her more crazy.
Also Junu wasn't prejudice against Sungouk but just plain bias. He didn't pre-judge him, he just clung his old judgement. Also there was evidence, though its easier to see in hindsight, Sungouk never went to apologise and yet spoke as if he had been hoping for that chance. Its why he was willing to walk away, because he wasn't right. He thought Sungouk's actions were backed by malice just like all the rest and the fact he let him talk him down only goes to show his flaws as a character. Junu also isn't always right, as seen by plenty of bad decisions and bad judgements he's made in his decisions and about people up to this point. Of course everything won't work out totally negatively for him as the MC but it isn't like he's always given the good shake. He gets a lot of sympathy as the MC not necessarily positive light. Even with his interactions with the student president he's painted quite negatively quite often.
Both their motivations aren't important because the story is barely affected by finding out the motivations of Kim but affected by his actions and for Lila her actions were just as much a contribution factor to the story as her motivations, because of what they were. If you just had her actions but not her motivation then Junu would have hated her and probably never gotten out of his slump. If you had her motivations touched upon but her actions didn't happen Junu would still have recovered out of his slump but would have never met his old enemies. The only bias here is that you aren't seeing the obvious.
You're again mixing objective character traits with subjective reactions. Junu not caring about motivatiosn isn't a character trait. It was a subjective reaction to what happened and nothing more. In no other area of this story does Junu not care about reasons for people's actions.
Lila is a bait and switch character because that's a common character quirk used in story telling to create conflict. How could Lila be a bait and switch character due to Junu, now that's ridiculous, its an author controlled aspect.
| 1 year ago
Oh, look, Hisao collapsed again.
| 1 year ago
You mean evidence other than Lila's highly pleased face when she causes pain and misfortune to others?
That's exactly the thing though, it doesn't happen with her. She 'gloats' for like 2 seconds when she first betrays Junu along and then snaps when he pokes at that not being her. Kim on the other hand is repeatedly shown to be not only be delighting in his pain but also in his plans to inflict further pain.
On Taewon being a loose cannon, that can easily be explained as being part of their group dynamic.
Only it can't, it was even said specifically about him and not the others.
Look back to when he was "friendly" with Joonwoo and Taeyang. He could be the loose cannon by just not being as contained as the others. It does not actually say that he beat other people up.
Not being as contained as others is exactly what a loose cannon is. Also it does, it says that about most of the group and even him especially.
The author does not make them both look bat shit crazy. He paints Lila in a much more positive light. Look at when Joonwoo talks to her about Hamin. She "jokes" about killing Hamin. The author portrays that as "jokes" and being so funny and charming when, in reality, it could easily be her being serious.
Her maybe being serious is touched upon right then and there, both in the atmosphere and Junu's reaction. Only she turns around and says she's joking and Junu shows no signs of truly believing her. The fact that she switches back only links back to her previous flip flopping behaviour.
Second, yes, again, I get why Joonwoo has a soft spot for her. That's what I'm criticizing considering his very clear statement (I don't care, etc. ruined the lives of three innocent people, etc.). Second, I am criticizing how the author goes along with Joonwoo (no surprise there since he is the main character). Joonwoo's thoughts are portrayed as being right, portrayed as such by the author.
If you think the author always goes along with Junu then you have missed a lot. All those cringe moments and down arcs are basically the author putting him and his opinions through the ringer. The same happened in the Lila arc. The author is following his journey but he's definitely not only on his side.
Again, this is your bias in favor of her. Taewon's motivation would be a major part of the plot. Look at how he affected the lives of all of the main characters. If he didn't have that motivation, then a lot of people wouldn't be affected the same way.
Your not only contradicting your earlier statements by basically saying he's very motivated in messing with the main characters but also that reasoning is very weak considering its so indirect. Lila's part was major because of its direct similarities to Junu as a character at the time, while for Kim his motivations don't matter, at least not yet, only his actions do. Using your logic you could say that about all characters, even minor ones, if they were ever covered or hinted at, even in the slightest.
"The only thing even close for Kim is that he doesn't want to go back to being on the victim side." That's you saying "the only thing". Where do you get that that's the only thing? That's your bias."
Its simply because its the only thing even hinted at for him as being his reason. The flashback was placed where it was for a reason.
How is his abuse reaffirming his beliefs? It's a belief that he's not the only victim in the world, as I had already explained above. That others will be beaten up for no good reason just like how he was beaten up for no good reason.
You said she, also it would be more that 'its a belief that he has the right to spread the unfairness because he experienced it'.
1) Does Joonwoo recognize those specific reasons as his motivating factor? Does he think of those reasons for why he treats them differently? The answer is a clear no. The very first thought Joonwoo had in his fight with Taewon was the I don't care what your motivations are. The very first thought he had when he was getting beaten up because of Lila was that he didn't think everything she said was a lie. Those are markedly different reactions. Nowhere does it say that his different treatment of them is because of your specific reasons. He disregards those reasons in favor of flimsy excuses.
He does recognise those as his reasons. Its even what's touched on in these more recent chapters. As for whether or not the author was on his side is easy to see because as usual he was portrayed as basically being overflowing with anger. By saying he doesn't care what his motivations are Junu is admitting its pretty much his personal reason for hating him and motivations won't change that. Also even back then he explained why he thought she was lying and why her betrayal wasn't enough to totally turn his back on her. The very reason I've been constantly putting in many of these comments, she helped him work through a difficult time and they were dating and also his want to 'save' her, similar to Sungah.
2) The author still does portray them very differently. I fundamentally disagree with what you said. Yes, Lila has moments where she is drawn bat shit crazy. Those are much fewer and farther between than Taewon, AND she is still portrayed as being funny and charming and beautiful.
The reason for that is simply because Lila was supposed to be a bait and switch character and was then dropped from the story after for a while. On the other hand Kim was always Junu's enemy from the time of Yuri's bullying and was brought in earlier as well. You're attributing additional motivations to something that's just due to screen time and situation.
| 1 year ago
Only bad logic of being an opportunist is when people figure out who you are they wont want to associate with you
| 1 year ago
What a hard on :P
| 1 year ago
Junu didn't 'see' the boyfriend though during the happening. He just saw him after when he got the warning.
"Let's look back at what Joonwoo ACTUALLY said. WHILE he was being beaten up, his very first thought was I don't think that everything Lila said was a lie. He literally was thinking that while he was getting beaten."
His reasons for that were already covered.
"That is not "for pleasure". That is you twisting it and saying it's for pleasure when there's no evidence to that. Maybe he's lashing out at the world in anger? Maybe he is doing it for literally no good reason at all? Maybe it is pleasure? Yes, pleasure is a possibility, but that is said NOWHERE. Also look. You don't hear about Kim Taewon beating other people up. It was the one incident with Yuri. So then if it's for pleasure, why haven't we heard about anyone else?"
You mean evidence other than his highly pleased face as he pummels people, or plans their downfall? Even if he was lashing out, which is hinted at btw, it doesn't change the fact that he's still gaining a lot of pleasure from it and doesn't seem to want anything else. Also, you do hear about Kim beating other people up, its pretty much the backstory of the whole group, with him being said to be the loose cannon.
""The fact that the author gave him such a backstory is basically further proof of how he's not being that biased against him." This is just wrong. Look at how the author/artist depicts Lila and Taewon differently. I mean that both metaphorically depicts as well as literally depicts. Almost every single image of Taewon is this crazed lunatic. Lila is drawn so pretty. Also look at the story and how they're treated. Taewon is viewed in a negative light while Lila is drawn to be funny and charming. That's literally biased."
This is just your excessive bias again. The author portrays them both as bat shit crazy. In fact he makes Lila seem a lot more so than Kim who's just portrayed as crazy by being overly aggressive. Lila being drawn to pretty is precisely to contrast her looks with her personality. Its why you have the crazy face pop up as soon as things start to go to shit.
Since when was Lila drawn to be funny and charming that wasn't also to contrast with her personality? When it first happened that was pretty much the only reason and even now its just for the readers to remember that contrast as even the recent interaction with her had a little bout of craziness (even if it was later played off as a joke). There is a reason most readers don't like Lila, you're just more focusing more on certain parts than others.
"Again, you're making up that he takes pleasure in abusing others. If that were the case, he would've abused more people. There's no reference to that anywhere."
"You're literally trying to excuse Lila by inventing excuses."
Again, here is that bias blinding you. I'm not excusing her so much as excusing Junu for his soft spot for her, and why he doesn't have that same soft spot for Kim.
"Taewon has an extreme reluctance to rely on anyone else as well, because one of the closest people to him, his own father, is his abuser. What about that? His abuse of others reaffirms her beliefs as well that the world is unfair for EVERYONE and that it isn't just him that is experiencing pain."
Now who is bringing up excuses. Lila's reluctance is a major part of the plot. The only thing even close for Kim is that he doesn't want to go back to being on the victim side. There are no hints of it being a reliance problem. Also how is his abuse reaffirming her beliefs? She's basically the opposite and believes she's had a more unfair shake than anyone (or at least most of them)
"That's obvious reasons why you're being biased in favor of Lila instead of Taewon (that would be his given name, for the record, since it's the latter name). That's obvious reasons that the author is doing the same thing as you."
Lol, the reason I'm using his family name is simply because its similar to the other guy to prevent misunderstanding, because I at first thought you were talking about Taeyang.
| 1 year ago
@givemersspls You just have to twist everything don't you.
Those differences have no real influence on the situation other than probably the last one and just show your bias.
You're ignoring the rest of his thought process about the differences between them. The simple fact is Junu saw and experienced Kim ruining lives and those of the people he lived and trusted. It was more personal to him. He saw Lila try to ruin one life, his. You can also include that other guy that first warned him but the rest he just heard of and from her perspective. He also never said that what Lila did was 'better', just that he would still try to help her because of the help she provided him. Its why even in the recent chapters he was wary and distancing himself from her until he needed something.
"By the way, you're wrong about Kim Taewon doing it just for the pleasure of hurting others. First, if anything, Lila also falls into that category. Look at how she hurts others even when it doesn't benefit her (such as her having her ex-boyfriend beaten up even though he had no money). Second, Kim Taewon had explained his reasons when he had his inner flashback, where he was thinking about how he got beaten by his father no matter what he did, good or bad. You're ignoring that fact, and saying that he just beats people up for pleasure is just wrong."
You basically say I'm wrong here and then give the reason why he does it for pleasure. He was abused and therefore now finds pleasure in turning the tables. The fact that the author gave him such a backstory is basically further proof of how he's not being that biased against him. After all his backstory is very similar to Lila's in terms of victim turned villain, though his targets are more indiscriminate and the pleasure he gleans from it is more.
Lila does it for the sake of hurting others as well and is based more in a mistrust and a reluctance to rely on anyone. Hence why the targets are so selective, its only guys who want to date her but she feels aren't willing to shoulder her problems. It benefits her because it reaffirms her belief and allows her to still think herself the victim. Its less about the pleasure she gleams and more about her not facing her crimes and being secure in a lie and paranoia.
There's obvious reasons why he would sympathise more with Lila than Kim.