Kishuku Gakkou no Juliet

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Vol. 12 Ch. 83 - Romio, Leon and the Secret (Part II)
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I see the walls of text (that I didn't bother to even skim through) of people discussing/arguing over something or other

But more importantly, Leon is a redhead.

me likey :>
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no war between groups no more chap lol
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@Yautja
I'm not here to prove you're wrong here man that's all
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@Y36
I don't care if people like it or appreciate it; I'm not arguing about subjectives like appreciation and enjoyment, I have a problem when people say it's reasonable, realistic or good / original writing. It's not, it's filled with logical inconsistencies, plot holes, and cliches. Most of which will probably be filled with contrivances if we're lucky and more likely not at all.

That's the stupidest fuckin' thing about this backstory. She shouldn't even have any 'parental rights' at this point, Leon's mother is a grown ass woman, and we've been given no reason to believe either country is like SA where women need a guardian. She could have called the cops the moment she got a chance in her country and solved this shit, but no, we'll get some cliche "she threatened my daughter and husband" or "kept me locked in a room for two years" kinda shit. Grandma Dumbass over here literally committed a host federal crimes, kidnapping, false imprisonment, human trafficking, forced marriage, assault, and who knows what else. None of that makes a modicum of sense. Just super-villain & soap-opera-drama shit. She could disown the mother but other than that, the mother should have literally zero ability to make choices for her. Unless I grossly misunderstand the age of adulthood in almost all civilized countries, your parent's don't get to tell you what to do once you're 18, even less so if you don't live with them, let alone in a different fucking country for that matter. This is going to have a fairy tale ending, that's how these kind of stories work. Either the grandma is going to learn the err of her ways or everyone's going to live happy while she's doing fuck all being the stereotype she is. It's one of the two.
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@Yautja
I hope at least we're on the same page on this topic, and the story and character appreciation is subjective

P/S: now onto something off topic, I personally want this incident to be leaked in the future, considering it has only happened possibly less than a year ago, and have the authority involved to arrest that old woman or at least have her lose her parental right to Leon's mother, because at this point I don't see how the MC can deal with that old woman by just bringing peace between two factions. In my opinion, there's no way the old lady would kidnap and force marriage on her own daughter simply because of racial difference and give her back to Leon without receiving any public or legal backlash just because 'real' peace has achieved. But because of plot, Inuzuka must help Leon overcome her problem and Leon's mother has to return somehow.
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@Y36
The only thing I've trashed in this chapter is Leon's "tragic background" and the ridiculous contents of this specific chapter, not only because it's unreasonable but because it's comically cliche, something you'd find on a cartoon super villain. I don't really care about Leon at all, she's a generic foil and antagonist who's driving purpose is to push the plot forward and be an antonym and enemy to Inuzaka. She's almost as boring as the grandmother.
This thread is already a cesspool with people spouting "what ifs" and random conjecture that isn't concurrent with reality nor the setting of the story or what it is based off of. I've seen zero competent justifications for this event. The best excuse is a grand conspiracy theory or throwing a ridiculous amount of money around. Even if those were true, such an obvious crime committed by bitter enemies would not go unnoticed unless everyone involved were dead. Someone would leak something, and the shit would spread. It always does. The author wrote himself into a corner.
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@Xelda
Let me try to word this the other way round on his behalf. Unless if the author address the process Leon's grandmother has undertaken for the kidnapping, whether it's bribery or using her social connection, she's not legally able to get away with this without repercussion of some sort. If her mother has some kind of citizenship in Touwa, realistically she should be protected from being forcefully taken away by law, but we don't even know if Leon's mom was legally staying on Touwa, none of these are addressed in the manga. To me it looks like the neighbors didn't help Leon's mother because they are afraid to challenge the grandmother's high status rather than ignoring Westian's business, but even this point is still in the grey area and haven't been properly addressed yet. The point is even if there's a proper justification, as long as the incident is not a norm or outright against the system, it can't be feasible unless if the author justifies it him/herself. The justifications you brought up were probably not even the same with what the author have in mind, THE AUTHOR MIGHT NOT EVEN HAVE A JUSTIFICATION OF HIS/HER OWN IN THE FIRST PLACE (at least at this point).

@Yautja
From what I can imagine, you're giving out the impression that you're trashing the whole manga (or at least Leon's tragic backgound) solely because of that unreasonable incident. If this is really what you think, I'd be disappointed for you would just simply allow such trivial matter that doesn't affect the integrality of the story to throw you off this series, because none of these would altered Leon's shattered happiness, her resentment and her false motivation to divide two countries, and the fact that that old hag is a self-centered, inconsiderate piece of shit. If this is not what you think, I believe it's best for you to address it now simply because that this argument thread is turning into a cesspool.
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@Xelda
Jesus Christ, an instance of something happening does not prove it to be normal or reasonable, I'm not going to assume that shit without a good reason to believe so, especially when I already have a good argument against that bullshit. Just as delusional as the other guy. You're doing the exact same thing as the other guy, and I've already dealt with him, I'm not bothering with you as well. I repeat, take your bullshit conjecture and go home. Go read what that other guy said, it's the exact same shit you're spewing now. You're adding absolutely nothing to this conversation. If anything, you're doing a bad job at plagiarizing the guy I was originally speaking to. I swear to god, this is why everyone hates weebs, they'll go through any lengths to defend something without acknowledging the flaws of what they're defending.
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@Yautja

Unless a fictional world has given us a reason to believe X is normal


Well then, why don't we use this VERY EXAMPLE of a kidnapping happening and people not doing anything to stop it, to assume that, yes, in this world, a Westian can be kidnapped by Westians and people won't do anything to stop it? Hell, before we saw that people are willing to KILL each other simply for dating somebody of the opposite nation, you could argue such a thing would be absurd, that they'd not go that far. But then we saw it, so we know that that's how this world works. Seeing is believing, as they say.

And saying that it's "normal" is a stretch - we're saying it's something that CAN happen, not that it's the norm. We're saying that Touwans would absolutely not do a thing to interfere with a Westian being kidnapped by Westians, not that that very scenario is the "norm". Quite the opposite, a Westian marrying a Touwan is VERY abnormal. At Dhalia, a Touwan and a Westian got together and were driven out by their fellow students. Here, a Westian is hiding her nationality so that she can be with her Touwan husband. These facts alone just show you how much hatred and the two countries have for each other, so frankly I would expect nothing less than for the Touwans to do nothing when they a Westian in trouble, especially when the agressor is another Westian.
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@Y36
Completely agree and that's 100% my point. It's not believable or reasonable in both a fictional or realistic sense. I literally said: " It's a ridiculous, contrived, plot convenience to justify Leon's batshit crazy disposition." Everyone else is too busy justifying every ridiculous point of this manga because they want to believe it's better than it is.
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@Yautja

I think the author just didn't bother to make the kidnapping be workable in the real world. It seems to me that the author just wanted to create a situation where Leon's family peace is threaten, and when she desperately cried for help the public just turned a blind eye for reasons. All this is to make Leon to be separated from her loved one, hate the West (for the wrong reasons) and to have the idea that the West and Touwan can never come to a peace.

You could argue that a more believable method can be used instead of this forced kidnapping to achieve the same result, it's just that to me it doesn't matter
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@Xelda
Yea, fictional, first world, modern countries. Unless a fictional world has given us a reason to believe X is normal when in reality it is abnormal, we do not assume X to be normal. And yea, kidnapping does happen, but is it at all likely, believable or similar to the terms as laid out in the manga. Fuck no. You don't hear about Bill Gates kidnapping his daughter from some foreign guy. The other guy I was talking to tried much harder than you, and made just as ridiculous a case. Read what he said, because unless you're going to add nothing new, I'm not going to bother repeating myself. Same as always, baseless conjecture based off nothing but a desire to believe something.
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@Yautja

I never said anything about it not being modern. It is indeed modern, well done. It's also still a fictional setting.

You do realize that's not happening in modern, 1st world countries


Too bad these are FICTIONAL COUNTRIES, inspired by but distinct from ones in real life. Also, forced marriage aside, I can assure you that adults can and DO get abducted in First World Countries - it's probably not as common as child abductions but it still happens, and considering that this is a rich and powerful house, that means they have the money to cover their actions.

You're assuming these two countries work similarly to places like America, England, France, etc. These are countries where simply being from the opposite nation is enough for someone to want to beat you up. Discrimination and tensions are high. It's not the least bit unreasonable that people from Touwa would see a Westian clearly being harrased and abducted by other Westians and not do anything to help. Hell it's not unreasonable to think they'd be happy to see the Westian gone.
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oh and for that absurdly long comments, raise you hand if you guys actually read it?
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don't worry Inuzuka you will definitely win the election lol xD
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@Yautja
From what I can gather by tracking back to where these arguments started, you're wondering how can that grandmother get away with forcefully taking her daughter away from her family in broad daylight?
Last edited 6 mo ago by Y36.
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@HYBRID_BEING
Dude, you haven't been on track at any point; the entirety this conversation has been you using words you don't understand, making assumptions and so on. I agree, there's zero purpose in responding to you at this point, everything you've said is either conjecture or an opinion you want to be true despite it having zero evidence, or more likely, evidence to the contrary; everything in that comment is something I've addressed previously.
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@Yautja
Look, i admit, i threw around some words i didn't actually thought through well enough, made some hasty assumptions, and bringing up "authoritarian regimes" was a huge screw-up on my part (i partly blame my lack of sleep). After giving it a good though, i understand that it was ridiculous of me.

Just to correct you a bit: incident transpired almost entirely inside Leon's home (you can see that she wasn't aware until she entered her house). Only when car stopped by to pick up Westians, neighbors saw some commotion. They looked uncomfortable, alright. Even more so when Leon cried for help - they just turned away their gazes. Wow, such caring neighbors! And i never said father didn't care (heck, he even got a trauma - a mental one, i presume). However he wasn't able to bring back his dear wife. Why? Afraid about escalating kidnapping into an international conflict? Or maybe he was just denied by the local authorities (again, why?)? I doubt there was anyone on their side, and I fail to see what's so baseless about this assumption - the whole chapter screams that this family was not welcome there.

"Except you did imply one of those things", um, except i didn't? Sorry for my bad choice of words, if it looked otherwise. I do not find it weird for Touwans to ignore a kidnapping of a Westian by Westians, considering her Touwan husband most likely wasn't even harmed physically too much. Especially if the word got out, that she was taken by her own family. I'll repeat, chapter clearly shows that their relationship didn't gather much support among their neighbors. As for the authorities' involvement (through action or inaction) - that's what i've been repeating from the get-go, no?

Yep, i fail to see anything that encourages cooperation of students of both Houses. True, the infrastructure is there, they are living on the same island and go to the same educational institution. And at the same time, dorms are segregated, classes are segregated, villages are segregated, and we haven't seen anyone other than Romio and Juliet bothering to think about the purpose for which this academy was established in the first place. Ministers of Education, teachers, principals of the dormitories, prefects, students - no one gives a wooden nickle about improving relationship between both countries. Of course, now we have Romio and Juliet to fix this mess, but school administration should have had it on the list of goals from the beginning. I agree that Dahlia Academy was designed for this purpose (if you put aside conspiracy theories, like "playing good neighbors for other countries"), but at this point it's just a force of habit. And i'm most certainly would be happy to see more characters gunning for coexistence (openly or secretly).

I'm honestly starting to lose a track of what we are arguing about here, so i'm gonna stop now.
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@HYBRID_BEING
Well, everything you've said would lead anyone who's read your comments to believe the exact opposite. No matter how you try and spin it, you called both countries "Authoritarian Regimes", claimed I was ignoring tradition and conservatism too much when I dismissed your ridiculous claim on authoritarian regimes, and blamed your claim of them being authoritarian regimes and justified the possibility of them kidnapping and assaulting foreign citizens exactly on those two things.

And what would you call a broad daylight kidnapping and assault of multiple citizens by a foreign internationals? Do I need to start defining words again? I don't really believe any of what you claim to see at this point. I haven't had much of an opinion for your observations the moment you tried to call Touwa and the West authoritarian regimes. Trying to cover it up doesn't change the nature of the incident. You can claim no one cares, but yet again, it's baseless conjecture. People certainly looked uncomfortable and the father sure as hell cared. Inaction doesn't not equal apathy.

Except you did imply one of those things and I was never arguing the second; don't try to change what you or I have argued mid stream. Local authorities are government employees, ergo, the government was involved, at the very least in your claim. Next, me saying a country, not a government, is willing to do these things includes it's residents, so quit dodging. And you expect local citizens are just going to ignore a crime committed on their soil against not just a foreign citizen, but a natural born citizen too, regardless of their social status, without any prompt from either their government or foreign bribery / intimidation? Fat chance. It sure as hell does sound ridiculous considering you laid out zero backing for your conjecture besides patently ridiculous claims / opinions with no real world or fictional consistency as well as attempted to alter both of our arguments.

Really? You don't see them trying to improve relations? Colour me surprised. What would you call two countries funding a mutual ground island filled with an extremely prestigious, well-funded school filled with the children of politicians, leaders and high class citizens who will likely go onto inherent those positions as well as a well built, high quality fucking city? A location literally designed to integrate and have students interact with past enemies? That sure seems like an effort in improving relations. Administrators not liking it doesn't matter or imply anything other than what we already know. Relations are bad. They didn't make the decision to fund, construct, staff or supply the island. From what we know, there's only one reasonable conclusion for that island to exist, to improve relations.

Like I said, you're arguing uphill, not only by your own choice, but by your position. You're arguing entirely with conjecture for ridiculous and counterproductive intentions. Countries put their interest first, and considering they've gone to war, the war has ended and they've begun reparations and integration, as per the existence of that island, ruining international relationships is just about the stupidest fuckin' thing anyone could do. So, goodluck arguing that these countries want to start a war, ruin or are apathetic to international relations, and are comparable to dictatorships like SA or are countries like Britain with no problem employing dictatorial strategies. We don't have enough information to believe or even suggest any of that, and your arguments are already ridiculous as is, so good luck with that. And if anything is bs, it's your argument.
Last edited 6 mo ago by Yautja.
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I have never seen a lot of long comment.......
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