A Returner's Magic Should Be Special

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Ch. 41
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@ninjadork Fair enough. You have convinced me.
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Yeah, I read the chapters on Meraki's site. I was curious why you thought my comment was so stupid. Your comment was about what happens next, so I had to get myself informed.
That's why I used the spoiler tags.
I do remember where Desir comes from. That what makes everything dumber. He knows the risks, and he knows what ultimately happens if he fails (he did not love "almost" everyone, there was no survivors...)
Also,yeah, he doesn't have much... except seemingly an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that happened in his lifetime, down to the hour.

You see, when you try to make clever moves in your clever plot with your clever MC, you actually need a clever author. If not, your story become PlotHoles-Land or Deus-Ex-Machina-Country way too quickly.
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@aFFi You're complaining about chapter 41. Unless you've gone to read 43 on MerakiScans by the time of my current post and are willing to discuss it here (since we have six hours until 43 comes to MangaDex), then for all practical purposes you haven't read the next two chapters, 42 and 43.

As for the second part of your complaint, remember that Desir is not some demigod like spymaster; he's a teenage survivor of a massively bloody war that killed everything and almost everyone he knows. In this post return timeline, he has nothing except two party members, the support of two teachers, and a bit of a reputation as a rank 1 alpha class member. In the 10-ish hours between his first warning and the attack, there is no way anything he has is sufficient to conduct a pre-emptive attack. Hell, it's barely enough to convince the tower management to beef up defenses. Remember the random guard incredulously shouting, "They really did come"? That's an indication that "Desir's nonsense" is barely tolerated, not really accepted.

In short, the only plan possible for Desir and co. is a defense in depth consisting of three people and whatever killzone effect the guards manage to provide by accident, because that's the only worthwhile plan he can manage with the resources he has.

Last edited 5 mo ago by ninjadork.

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@ninjadork
Well, I just read the two chapters.



So yeah, my comment wasn't really stupid. Desir kinda was though..
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Don't waste food, vermin.
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And from the next two chapters it doesn't seem as if there is anything that makes this less stupid. But still time I guess.

@greatninja3: Their school isn't all that big and the smaller two of the party need to fight seriously with their classmates of the same age. (Which are first years and unless the school is just useless will grow stronger too. Unless these two are geniuses too.) In an usual school/university being in the to 9 of your grade puts you nowhere near genius level, I think there were less than 100 people in the test, being a genius is by definition rare so most groups of 100 won't have one so being the best 9 among them doesn't make you one. Now it is an elite school I think but if I had to choose between a Harvard freshman near the top of their class and a pro, given no other infos, I would choose the pro for most short term things. (Long term betting on talent might make sense but fights are fairly short term.) Maybe sword mage lady and MC with his super analysis are geniuses, we haven't seen them compared to any fully trained people, but I guess they probably are it being a manga and all. But point is being among the top 9 freshman does not prove you are a genius.

But the real issue is, if he didn't say how he got the info that makes it relatively likely he is part of the plot, it isn't about strength alone you know but also about being able to trust the people you use as guards.

Last edited 5 mo ago by Ibri.

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@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN Essentially, your objections boil down to three questions: 1) why are the saboteurs wearing flashy masks, 2) why are the guards wearing masks, 3) and why isn't Pram wearing a mask.

1) When you see someone new for the very first time, what is the very first thing you will notice and remember about them? Whatever feature is the most unusual. Whether it be a particularly big nose, stupidly colored hair, a weird way of walking, or something else, whatever is the biggest/flashiest/strangest feature is the one you will most likely remember. So if you're a saboteur looking to evade attention, a really effective way of making sure you don't get noticed is to have one or two really weird features that can be disposed of in a hurry. So when the popo comes by asking questions and everyone is talking about a big fancy monster mask and a red cape, they're not going to find you because you've already ditched them and are four blocks away, "minding your own business".

2) There are many reasons why the guards would be wearing masks. The biggest one is that this is the Tower of Magic, so it's really easy to get enchanted items here. Having a piece of clothing with one or two useful enchantments that can be easily donned and removed without compromising the rest of the uniform is a very smart investment for a professional guard force, and making it a cloth mask instead of something like jewelry keeps production costs down.

3) All the stuff I said about avoiding notice only applies if the people who might hunt you down are still able to do so (think the old assassin's creed meme of "nobody will notice if there's nobody to notice"). Since all the saboteurs either haven't seen Pram and co. or will shortly be put in a position where they can't take any action against him, there's no need to spend additional resources on something unnecessary (remember, Desir and his party as poor as balls). In addition, there's a substantial reputation benefit to be gained if the guards charge onto the scene and see Pram kicking ass, so no need to use something which might obstruct that.
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@ninjadork Fair point... but why are the masks so flashy? And the defending side are wearing uniform masks as well. And the shota isn't concealing his face in any way. My point still stands, it seems like a chuunibyo party.

(Ooh boy I'm starting another debate when I haven't finished quite a few)
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Or they were positioned somewhere else. When the commotion started, Pram and Romantica stealthily moved to the Mcguffin.
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@es_kan While it does kinda look like that (and I bet they won't elaborate), I would say the conversation went more as follows;

"We don't completely believe you. This is not worth suddenly summoning our most potent guards from their extremely urgent business."
"Well, how about this? You loiter around with most regular guards, and just be ready. Leave us near the macguffin and we can handle anyone that manages to get through."
"Why would we leave you near the Macguffin! That's lunacy!"
"It's a plot hole."
"And you, teacher person! You agree with this?!?"
"He's suspiciously knowledgable, and seems trustworthy. Also, it's the plot."
"Okay fine."

Point is; I don't think everyone else failed. They just got bogged down. Why they left Pram there though? No f-ing clue. ?‍โ™‚๏ธ

Last edited 5 mo ago by SpacyRicochet.

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I, pointy stick kid, will stop you while everyone else failed!
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I'm like 80% sure that they swap out the precious gem with a fake as a fail safe.
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@aFFi I'm not going to spoil it, but this comment is going to look really stupid when the next two chapters come in.
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Mmmmh.
Ok, so, Desir knew the guy attacking and went to meet with him so he could have his bread crushed?
What the hell?!?

Also, he then follows the guy while invisible and lets him enter the final room, even lets him disable the defences, without doing anything, right?
Two possibilities here:
1. Desir is trying to have a patsy while stealing the gem himself, so all the blame goes to evilguy.
2. He's just dumb. Desir is actually the dumbest man in the world, and sending him back in time was the stupidest thing that could happen to humanity.

Last edited 5 mo ago by aFFi.

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@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN Because unlike what tv shows and movies display when they're trying to sell the characters as fap bait, concealing your features when indulging in terrorism/corporate sabotage/other shady shit is the standard practice in the real world. Only a greenhorn or an idiot would not take measures to prevent their enemies from tracking them down later.
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@Acolytus You're making a massive false assumption here; namely, that Desir and his party are the only additional measure taken behind the scenes.

*While all the background mechanisms are not covered on screen, it is explicitly mentioned that the response time and the strength of the defense force is unusually good. This is an indication that the management of the Tower took additional measures once Desir and co. were commissioned.

*The main BBEG comments on how stupid it is for them to leave the inner corridors unguarded. Now, this could be a result of poorly trained security, with everyone rushing off to the big distraction at the front; it's a tactic used often enough by terrorists and corporate saboteurs of all stripes. But if the management is competent enough to set a defense-in-depth counter-trap for the terrorists, then it would make sense for the inner halls to be un- or lightly-guarded since the remaining response teams would be in hiding, as presenting an image of weakness is very useful for luring your enemy where you want him to be. See Perturabo's Eternal Fortress for an example of the overall mechanics behind that scheme, as well as a Henderson-scale demonstration of all the many tricks you can use in such a defense.

*Desir mentions that between the time he first walks up to the teacher and asks for a commission and the time of the first assault, there's only a little over a 10 hour time gap. While the tower management can certainly take some additional precautions, 10 hours is not nearly enough resources to prepare a defense against an unknown enemy as you might think.

*A final point to consider is that Desir did not give them all the information he has. If all he says is, "they're going to break down your front gate at X time", then they don't have all the information they need for an effective defense. Desir wouldn't do this if it put the overall mission at risk, but keep in mind he's still operating on a tight time table for preventing the big destruction event; he will manipulate people and circumstances to give himself more options and rewards if he can do so without hurting others.

Last edited 5 mo ago by ninjadork.

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@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN Nobody cared who they were until they put on the masks.
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Why do they all have to wear masks? It feels like I'm in a chuunibyo party

Last edited 5 mo ago by DANDAN_THE_DANDAN.

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@greatninja3 They became single rankers recently and their only known combat experience was fighting some monsters and other brats in a fake Shadow World.

If it was something like helping the Tower with some minor task or even taking part of some less serious part of the defense I'd be okay with it but they gave the most important job to a child.

That's like trusting a 12 years old genius to defuse a nuke. Even if he is good, he is still unexperienced.

If the Tower doesn't have at least 100 people better suited for the job then they are in serious trouble.
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@Acolytus they are single rank so that says a lot about their abilities I mean if it was Adjest who was with them who is also a single rank pretty sure a lot more people will doubt their actions.

it's like trusting a 12 years old genius on your college thesis it's not about age it's about their skills and abilities
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