Cohabitation with My Fiancée Korean

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Ch. 63 - The Parents' Hearts
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Of course girl.
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@Yautja Okay, fine, you're just being stupid. Every definition of a word/phrase has other words. Those words have their own definitions. It goes on and on. That's how language works. Being an asshole relies upon being irritating/contemptible, which NECESSARILY relies upon not having understandable reasons. If you actually walk a person through that connection, 9/10 times, they'll agree with me. The other 1/10 is the idiot such as yourself who refuses to understand that. It's not a personalized definition when it actually necessarily flows from a universal definition.

You're equivocating by saying oh, 1/6th of the chapters MUST be the same weight as 1/6th of a person's wages or lifespan or other bullshit. You're taking the ambiguity of "1/6th" and applying it to things where it doesn't make sense. And you didn't even answer the issue! You're literally only using a portion of his behavior!

Right, I'm retconning by specifying what I meant. That's totally retconning. You must be so fun to be around, whining about people retconning. This is how a natural conversation flows, dumbass. People specify as things go on. You keep trying to say that I'm lying and using sophistry and fallacies when you literally refuse to look in a mirror. And oh, what, are you going to whine about me using the word literallly figuratively? Or are you going to complain about me pointing that out?

Just to say this again, you have failed to give a reason as to why being an asshole does not rely upon lacking good reasons. You keep spewing the same crap about oh, this is a universal definition. Then when I say that your universal definition relies upon fundamental principles, principles that involve having or not having good reasons, you just whine about sophistry. Guess what? That sophistry just proved you wrong.
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@givemersspls
Another fallacy and not the pooooiiint. You seem to think that somehow justifies your ludicrous claim. It doesn't. And if you want an answer, go read the comments on the past 30 chapters complaining about him. That's your answer.
We are literally talking about definitions here.
No, we're talking about your personalized definition you're claiming to be a global one. Good job ignoring the sophistry part. You know, half the comment and the important part that really drives home your comment being bullshit. You do that a lot.

On the 1/6th issue, now look at who is using sophistry. You're equivocating.

e·quiv·o·ca·tion
noun
the use of ambiguous language to conceal the truth or to avoid committing oneself; prevarication.

What was that about using big words? You clearly don't know what that one means.
Yeah, 1/6th of a person's behavior (as in this series with Sang-Won) is totally the same as 1/6th of a person's wages or life. Show me 1/6th of a painting, and I will show you an incomplete painting. Show me 1/6th of a person's actions, and I will show you an incomplete person. That's literally what this is.
That's some impressive nonsense. Not like I was talking about the number of chapters, or how 1/6 is a big amount. Congratulations, that word soup meant nothing.

What you said is that the majority hate him. What I said is that the majority hate him NOW. Again, you're ignoring the fact that it goes in tides, changes as the chapters and actions change.
And yes, I understand that that is just one example. Yes, he has been criticized for doing stupid stuff. I'm not denying that. The issue is that you deny that there has been any support for the MC, which there has been.
No, what you said is that I claimed no one ever liked him. Good job lying again.

Okay, do you want to be toxic about this all the time, or do you want to continue calmly? I only called you a troll in response to you calling me a troll. We can either both calm down, or you can continue acting like that and fanning the flames. Your choice.
Oh, so not consuming your bullshit is toxic? Poor thing. You also seem to be, yet again, ignoring why I called you a troll or how. While you may think lying, utilizing sophistry and fallacies, and what not is worth while, I do not, so I choose to not waste my time further with the clearly inconsistent and unaware troll.

I'll call out your bullshit while you're consistent with it, but now that you've just started retconning, blatantly lying and trying to pretend reality is not real because you don't like it, I'm not going to waste my time. Your magic carpet has left without you, and so have I.
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@Yautja "An asshole is still an asshole" Again you're begging the question. Why is he an asshole? Because he's an irritating or contemptible person. Why is he an irritating or contemptible person? Because...uhh. And then you stop right there. I say he is not irritating or contemptible because we and the characters understand his reasons. You give no response.

We are literally talking about definitions here. No shit I would use "semantics"! What the hell are you even saying? No shit I'm using semantics in...a discussion about semantics! You're just tossing out words to make yourself look smart.

On the 1/6th issue, now look at who is using sophistry. You're equivocating. Yeah, 1/6th of a person's behavior (as in this series with Sang-Won) is totally the same as 1/6th of a person's wages or life. Show me 1/6th of a painting, and I will show you an incomplete painting. Show me 1/6th of a person's actions, and I will show you an incomplete person. That's literally what this is.

What you said is that the majority hate him. What I said is that the majority hate him NOW. Again, you're ignoring the fact that it goes in tides, changes as the chapters and actions change.

Okay, do you want to be toxic about this all the time, or do you want to continue calmly? I only called you a troll in response to you calling me a troll. We can either both calm down, or you can continue acting like that and fanning the flames. Your choice.
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@givemersspls
Wow, again... -> you are not being an asshole
And none of that makes a difference. An asshole is still an asshole. Justified or not. Nice try, utilizing semantics and sophistry to try and justify your ultimately untrue belief. Add as many pretty words, unrelated tangents and untrue assumptions as you want. You're still wrong. Go on, go ask the people, ask the internet. "Does being right exempt you from being an asshole". That's what you said, that's what I'm arguing against, that's what everyone but you knows the correct answer to.
I do think 1/6 is a small slice.
Okay, give me 1/6 of your yearly earnings, give me 1/6 of your lifespan, give me 1/6 of the total value of everything you own. What a stupid hill to die on and belief to hold.
The issue is that you deny that there has been any support for the MC
Really? Now you're just full of shit and lying. Point to where I said that. Oh wait, you can't because I didn't say that. No what I said is the majority hates him, that he is x y and z, and that he has been disliked for a great while. I actually originally liked him, and I have the comments on KM to prove it. Unfortunately shit changes, except for you being wrong. That's timeless it seems.
he was praised and applauded for actually going through with it
Yes, he was, for about 20 chapters. Then it went to shit. And the shit is what I'm talking about.
You are trying to cherry pick while ignoring the other points.
And by cherry pick you mean your entire comment or ridiculously important and radically untrue assertions? And by cherry pick you mean not ignoring and not pressing your radically untrue and wildly unsubstantiated claims of facts. "Oh I said the moon is made of cheese and you calling my bullshit is cherry picking".

Hurry up man, I just heard the engine start on that carpet.

Last edited 3 mo ago by Yautja.

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@Yautja Wow, again, you missed what I said. There is a MAJOR difference between having good reasons for your actions and being right/justified. The difference HERE is that not only do we as readers know why he is acting the way he acts, THE OTHER CHARACTERS KNOW why he acts the way he acts. If you go up to a random person and hold your hand in front of their face, they will think you're weird and annoying and being an asshole. If you have a friend and you say "I'm doing a little experiment on something and would like to hold my hand in front of your face" and then you do it after your friend accepts, then NO, you are not being an asshole.

Here, Sang Won has made his reasons abundantly clear not only to the readers but also to the other characters. Even if we go with your definition, then that means Sang Won literally is not being irritating or contemptible. He would be irritating or contemptible if the other characters/we as readers didn't understand why he was acting the way he did, but we do. That is the difference. In the real world, you wouldn't be irritating or contemptible if people understand what you're doing. That's part of what it means to be irritating or contemptible.

I do think 1/6 is a small slice. Do you want me to pick up the points where he is praised? How about the very beginning when he lit Ma-Ri's useless purchases on fire? Not just on this site but on other sites, he was praised and applauded for actually going through with it. And yes, I understand that that is just one example. Yes, he has been criticized for doing stupid stuff. I'm not denying that. The issue is that you deny that there has been any support for the MC, which there has been.

That is the difference. You are trying to cherry pick while ignoring the other points.

Last edited 3 mo ago by givemersspls.

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@givemersspls
Maybe by your definition, not by the actual definition or pretty much any sane human being. And no, your definition is not a definition that would be widely accepted because there already is an actual definition that is widely accepted that certainly disagrees with yours. Go ask 10 people on the street, go ask reddit or the forums if being right or justified disqualifies you from being an asshole. I can already tell how stupid people are going to think you are. And you don't seem to know what putting the cart before the horse means, because that certainly ain't it. You also don't know what I'm saying because that also certainly ain't it.

ass·hole noun
an irritating or contemptible person

Note how it doesn't say if you have a good reason you're no longer an asshole.

"A small slice"; 1/6 or 17%. Totally small. Fine, extend it to the past 30 chapters. Still pretty brutal against him. People have hated him since the beginning and the majority certainly has past chapter 20.

I will, because you are, and you've failed to explain yourself whereas I've reference the past comments and actually read them and know it's far from an even split. I've also displayed analogies whereas you've said "because I said so".

Toodaloo, you're going to miss your flight.
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@Yautja Oh, my gosh. You missed what I said in the very first message, and you still haven't given any kind of explanation of what you consider an asshole. You're literally putting the cart before the horse. I say that an asshole is a person who does stuff for no good reason and causes bad things as a result. That's a very general definition that people likely would find acceptable. That means that if a person has good reasons, then BY DEFINITION, they cannot be an asshole! "Involuntary manslaughter is still manslaughter. A black man is still a man." Etc. That's all literally putting the cart before the horse, begging the question of how do you define what "manslaughter" or all the rest is. You're literally saying Sang Won is an asshole because he's an asshole. You literally failed to explain anything.

Yeah, the past ten chapters are a SMALL slice of what the whole series is about. It has been going through longer stretches of Sang Won being stupid and criticized versus him being smart and praised.

Keep acting like I'm a troll while you fail to actually explain yourself. All you've done is kick the can and say "oh, he's an asshole so of course he's an asshole" and say that other people criticize him, so therefore, he must be bad. That's lazy as hell.

Last edited 3 mo ago by givemersspls.

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@givemersspls
And that's exactly what I meant by don't understand.
If he's justified, which we apparently both agree, then he is NOT an asshole! That's basically exactly what that means.

I showed explicitly why he is not an asshole
(No you didn't, you just asserted)
>Him being an asshole, justified or not, does not change him being an asshole. Involuntary manslaughter is still manslaughter. A black man is still a man. A white man is still a man. A stupid man is still a man. A smart man is still a man. A justified asshole is still an asshole. An unjustified asshole is still an asshole.
You : *Crickets*
I showed why he is not a tool and why he is not oblivious

He is not a tool, is not a jerk, is not a douche for no reason. His actions are almost always strongly justified. Even if they're not necessarily the best choices, he almost always has reasonable reasons.
An assertion is not proof. At least the comments on the past chapters agree and go into greater detail than I. Just looking at the past 10 chapters, I see little to no positive comments for him, but many, many negative comments. You on the other hand made an assertion, followed by an opinion and said it's evidence.

But hey, let's just ignore your other ridiculous assertions like saying it's reasonable for a character to be well written and still get women through contrived plot, pretending Mari being a cunt makes him less of a dick, less of an oblivious moron, and less of a tool, that merely saying something is the case constitutes "evidence", that being justified makes you not an asshole, and so on.

Enjoy your trip over the mountain, I won't be joining you, because I'm actually aware that the carpet you're sitting on doesn't fly.
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@Yautja And you don't understand that I already refuted what you said. Instead of giving answers to my responses, you keep quoting the same thing I've already answered. That's what makes you a troll.
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@givemersspls
And you don't understand why I quoted them. That's why you're the troll that's unaware he's a troll. Enjoy your flight. You're also seemingly incapable of understanding basic fallacies and sophistry.

Last edited 3 mo ago by Yautja.

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@Yautja You're literally just repeating the things that I already responded to. You're being a bigger troll than me. I can engage in a conversation if you want, but you don't seem to be willing.
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@givemersspls

You're asking me to explain why the moon isn't made of cheese. If you don't understand now, no explanation could make it clear.
If he's justified, which we apparently both agree, then he is NOT an asshole! That's basically exactly what that means.

I showed explicitly why he is not an asshole
Nope. Fantasy land. Him being an asshole, justified or not, does not change him being an asshole. Involuntary manslaughter is still manslaughter. A black man is still a man. A white man is still a man. A stupid man is still a man. A smart man is still a man. A justified asshole is still an asshole. An unjustified asshole is still an asshole.
I showed why he is not a tool and why he is not oblivious

He is not a tool, is not a jerk, is not a douche for no reason. His actions are almost always strongly justified. Even if they're not necessarily the best choices, he almost always has reasonable reasons.
Fantaaaaasy Laaaaand. You can keep pretending it's true, but the ratings and comments do not lie. I'm not going to recount to you what's been said a hundred times by a hundred people.
but you literally ignore all of that evidence.
"evidence". Man, you must love fantasy land.
You're literally ignoring half of the comments in support of him.
Now that's a tough sell no one will buy.

Last edited 3 mo ago by Yautja.

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@Yautja All of your post just amounted to "He's an asshole" and "Fantasy laaaaand". That was disappointing. Again, I showed explicitly why he is not an asshole. I showed why he is not a tool and why he is not oblivious (except regarding Eunjoo). I and many others have already explained that in great detail as well, but you literally ignore all of that evidence. It would be obvious to any person capable of reading. You're literally ignoring half of the comments in support of him.
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@givemersspls

Like I said, fantasy land.

No. If he's justified, which we apparently both agree, then he is NOT an asshole! That's basically exactly what that means.
Him being an asshole, justified or not, does not change him being an asshole. An asshole with a just cause is an asshole. An asshole without a just cause is still an asshole. Good lord I cannot believe you need that explained to you. It also does not change or directly relate to him being a tool / his oblivious behavior. I and many other also already explained in great detail. It's also fairly obvious to any human being capable of reading or understanding social cues. If you need it to be explained to you, you will not understand it.

He is not a tool, is not a jerk, is not a douche for no reason. His actions are almost always strongly justified
Fantasy laaaaand.

I would also disagree on being oblivious EXCEPT when it comes to Eunjoo.
Okay we're done here. You're a bigger troll than kronix, whether you know it or not is the question.

Enjoy your trip over the mountain on your magic carpet.

Last edited 3 mo ago by Yautja.

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@Yautja Are you kidding me? The comments go back and forth NUMEROUS times between supporting the MC and bashing on him. It's all dependent on whatever happens in that chapter and how people feel.

"Him being justified in being an asshole" Hold up. Stop right there. "Him being justified"...okay..."in being an asshole". No. If he's justified, which we apparently both agree, then he is NOT an asshole! That's basically exactly what that means.

Then what the hell do you mean by him being a tool? Is that related or separate from him being cliché or oblivious? I consider it different. He is not a tool, is not a jerk, is not a douche for no reason. His actions are almost always strongly justified. Even if they're not necessarily the best choices, he almost always has reasonable reasons. To actually respond, I would need just a basic explanation of what you mean by tool, and no, it doesn't have to involve you summarizing 60+ chapters worth of comments (which, again, go back and forth in support and bashing of Sang Won).

I can agree that he's clichéd, but that doesn't make him a tool. I would also disagree on being oblivious EXCEPT when it comes to Eunjoo. With Ma-Ri, he 1) has literally zero reason to fall in love with her other than her body, 2) any feelings he could have should be tempered by her massive lies, and 3) he legitimately just wants to help her get over her social phobia. All of that gives him major reasons to be uncertain with her.
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@givemersspls
If he was an interesting character it wouldn't be so contrived and people wouldn't be calling it out. And while they're not mutually exclusive, they're about as inversely related as being shot in the head and living a long life.

Really? 60+ chapters of people calling him a tool and explaining why in great detail and you need me to explain it to you? And you seem confused. Him being justified in being an asshole doesn't change the complaints about him being a tool, cliche MC demeanor or his oblivious behaviour. Those are two different issues that sometimes overlap. And Good luck man. I don't know what you're smoking but it seems like some good stuff. That or you have Alzheimer's.

Enjoy wonderland, hopefully you don't want any company because no one in this comment section seems to be joining you.

Last edited 3 mo ago by Yautja.

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@Yautja You're acting like it can't be both. He can both be an interesting character AND it's a contrived plot.

But anyways, bullshit. How the hell is he acting like a tool? Why the flying fuck should he give two shits about Ma-Ri? Here is a woman who came into his life ON A LIE. She was introduced as his fianceé and told that she would be doing housework, but instead, he finds out that she doesn't clean, the cooking she does is actually from a restaurant, and then she holes herself up in her room and spends literally hundreds of thousands [of won] on useless crap. Whenever he tried to talk to her about it, she either ignored him at best, or she literally CONSPIRED WITH HIS OWN FATHER to get him to shut up. His own father betrayed him by setting up this conspiracy behind his back for literally no reason.

Then he finds out that Ma-Ri actually has a social phobia. He did not take the tool route of not giving a crap. He actually forgave her and his father for LYING TO HIS FACE and dedicated his time and energy to helping her out. All of that crap about being his fianceé? All a massive lie that he has no reason to believe, WHICH HE DOESN'T. Give me a single reason why he should fall in love with Ma-Ri besides the fact that she's a woman and that she's in his house? What has she actually done that would make him fall for her AGAINST THE TOTAL BETRAYAL he already experienced?
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@givemersspls
The MC has been acting like the MC. That's obvious. He has two hot girls after him. That's Ma-Ri and his classmate, Eunjoo. That's also obvious. That means him acting like that got him at least two hot girls.
Yea okay buddy. Let's all pretend that means he's not acting like a total tool, and that he has two attractive women chasing after him because he's an interesting character not because of some contrived, half assed plot.
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@Ovdose I can maybe agree on Ma-Ri. I disagree on Eunjoo, though. She got played up as a gold digger, but it seemed like she 1) already like him before she ever found about his money and 2) was never that interested in his money even at the worst of times. That's the general vibe that I got considering how she relented and quickly agreed that it was bad to be in a financial relationship with a classmate. Given that, I would say it has more been Sang Won's own personality that made her fall for him. I can understand if you still disagree, though.
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