Maou no Ore ga Dorei Elf wo Yome ni Shitanda ga, Dou Medereba Ii? Japanese

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Vol. 2 Ch. 7 - The Quiet Ones are Devastatingly Terrifying when Angry 3
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That dumbfounded face, i like it
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Y'all talking about kindness is this, kindness isn't that, got a short story for you...

George Price, basically developed what is still the best accepted evolutionary, mathematical and biological interpretation of altruism.

Basic idea is, that you're more likely to be altruistic towards those more genetically similar to you, as a way of ensuring survival of the species.

He became depressed at the implications and attempted to prove his theory wrong by committing random acts of kindness.

He gave away many possessions and eventually was evicted from his home. Unable to help homelessness, and unable to prove his theory right or wrong, he committed suicide.

Just a fun little story.
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Tyco2003

Both lol
really like this series
^_^
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@suzubelle

Wait, are you saying it's too sweet, or that you hate it and it's killing you?
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@Wildfire_desu well, if you do manage to come up with something better just shoot me a PM. However, until then we are going to stick with the official translation.
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@ijan1 i think both suck and are wrong, even if i can't think up a better one right now
because they're all synonymous! it just sounds stupid like that
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Waifu Get
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is it just me or does that girl from the flashback look like chastille?
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The LN's official translation of the title isn't even a translation, it's a rewriting of the title entirely that ignores several unambiguous words (such as slave) because....reasons.
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@ijan1: The LN has an official translation? That's a weird translation choice if you ask me, though I guess it could work if you use the "transcendental union of the soul/mind with divinity or the divine reality" definition.
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What is better - to be born good ?, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Paarthurnax, Skyrim
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@Meridis My bad, must've misread somewhere.
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@xieshu initially it was going to be sorcery but it was decided to go with mysticism since it is used in the official translation of the LN.
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i think "sorcery" is the right word for her power.
and do you really think a girl with no concept of social world ask for sleeping together in that sense my dudes
get real
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she has a shia like sad story ..but worse.
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@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN
How did I misunderstand fitness? We used a very similar description and I made it very clear that it's circumstantial, using a strong group being placed next to a volcano in my own example. My end point was that humans manipulate their environment, especially social environments and that fitness of a group of humans could be decreased by kindness if they constructed such a social environment but the species as a whole would have reduced fitness in that environment as it's made to work in favor of a few more suited to that environment at the cost of cooperation.
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Well this was an incredibly heartfelt, warm chapter with light philosophy. Also, kinda sad, but mostly heartwarming.

Somehow, it's also kinda...satisfying to see a woobie-type character like Nephie actually lash out and bite back at the backstory bastards, all on her own.
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Oh hey, I got two people to debate with now :O

@Meridis I think you're misunderstanding fitness. Monkeys have a high fitness in the forest but put them in a dessert and their fitness falls down into a chasm. If a "strong" group is placed next to an erupting volcano, their fitness goes down. Fitness is a value that depends on more than a species' attributes: their habitat, as an example.

Okay. The first one was vaguely formulated. I just wanted to get my point across. Let me restate that. "Kindness in fact keeps us from mass and serial murdering each other in most cases." There! Better. Well. You don't have to be kind to not murder people,

Welp, alright then... guess I can't refuse on- wait a minute...

but truly kind people seldom do that.

Gotcha.

Define "truly kind". What do you mean by that phrase? Complete altruism? Perfect ambivalence? Such a case is impossible because greed is hard-coded into human nature. Why did you think we manage to get to the moon? Cause the Americans and Soviets wanna get to the moon first. There are more factors behind the scene contributing to this but the correlation is undeniable - greed almost always lead to progress in mankind. Sure, not all progress is caused by greed but the fact that some of them are is concrete evidence of my statement.

And as you know, kindness cannot coexist with greed. And because "truly kind" cannot exist, your point now holds no weight to your argument.

Nature doesn't use arguments. It does its thing.

You mean natural selection? About killing the weak so that the strong progresses?

Only people are just too complicated and weak and therefore need "arguments", a stuff they made up.

Your argument can be interpreted in many ways but let's look at it as evolution.

You (Mr. Evolution) see two people (two species) in an internet forum (habitat) arguing about kindness (survival of the fittest). One person made a good point (beneficial mutation) while the other misstates their facts and shot themself in their foot (harmful mutation). They kept on arguing (generations of mutation) until the entire forum backs up one guy (habitat change) which causes the other to lose their footing and lose the argument (decrease in fitness). However, that guy made one very good point (adaptation) which caused him to turn the tables on the debate (increase in fitness). Eventually, the other guy failed to counter the debate (fail to adapt quickly enough) and admits defeat (extinction).

You see, natural selection can be taken into anything if you really think about it.

Oh, Alfred Noble and dynamite. A really great guy! And that dynamite thing still helps today to feed millions of people. And helps to gives them electricity. And metals. And railways. Etc. You know, who should be sued? That guy that invented the hammer! That vicious thing killed soooo many people. Wait....If hammers kill people, do keyboards make typos?

Ah, the old "it's the fault of the user and not the tool" argument.

Regardless of the fault of the user or the tool, it proves that kindness is not absolute. It is an attribute that can be described as the absence of "evil" (emphasis on the quotation marks). And as you know, "evil" exists and thus kindness is not absolute.

Oh, fuck no. I'm not doing this. Please read the fine print. Disclaimer: "That said, I really don't want to discuss, if altruistic kindness really exists (We could as well discuss the existence of God. Nobody will be happy afterwards.)" ?

Well, I'd describe God as ambivalent rather than altruistic so there'd be no point to talking about this since we are talking about human-level kindness.

Your turn next
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Ayyy, we're better jumping right into that
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@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN

That's actually a common misunderstanding about the notion of natural selection. It has little to nothing to do with strength and weakness, but about circumstance instead. A "strong" group can be wiped out by chance from a volcano, and this is usually what happens. Meanwhile, a "weak" group would thrive just because they where fortunate enough to go uncontested. This is just something I think should be clarified whenever it comes up. There are still people who try to bring up natural selection and survival of the fittest when discussing matters of humans or race. That's wrong for a lot of reasons, primarily that scientific fitness is how well an organism matches their environment, not how strong or smart they are. That makes it almost irrelevant when discussing people. When it comes to individuals or interactions between groups, kindness improves fitness. Kindness only becomes a detriment to fitness for individuals or segments of the human population when the larger group creates an environment that rewards being cruel over being kind, as social environments are designed by humans and operate on their collective will. In this case, it is a bigger problem that humans designed an environment which fewer of them are able to thrive in, reducing the fitness of the species in favor of a select few.

Addressing the topic in broad again, remember that a big part of this is a story about Zagan being reintroduced into society, getting a family, and learning about kindness and love. It's pretty much been addressed already but what Zagan said to that girl was the broken, lonely, past him. Even then, he's the sort that says things in a harsher way then he means.

Last edited 25 days ago by Meridis.

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@Banarok I think most people are aware of it, they just don't want to hear inconvenient truths, so they lie to themselves, South Park calls it Mental gymnastics.
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So, fun fact. I just checked the raw for this chapter through the provided link, and it turns out that the name of this "Mysticism" power in Japanese is ้ญ”ๆณ• (Mahou, lit. "Magical Law/Principle"). This technically sets it apart from the "Magic" that Zagan uses, since that's named ้ญ”่ก“ (Majutsu, lit. "Magical Art/Technique") in Japanese. The interesting part is that in real-life modern Japanese, the two terms are practically synonymous; it's just that several modern works of Japanese fiction have taken the habit of using them to denote different varieties of magic -- Majutsu for the "normal" kind of magic that anyone could learn, and Mahou for super-extra-special magic that is in a whole league of its own, is objectively superior to Majutsu, and only very few people could hope to wield it, whether it's because you have to be born with the ability to do so or because learning the method is that ridiculously hard, time-consuming, and/or dangerous.

I'm really curious who started the trend of separating Majutsu from Mahou. Type-Moon's Nasuverse is the earliest example of such thing that I know of.
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If he doesn't fuck her next chapter i am dropping this.
I am tired of wussies in manga.
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most people cause their own pains, they just don't notice it and blame it on others, understanding you are part of the problem goes a long way to fix it. far too many people think they are hated because everyone are judgemental jerks, while those around them just treat the person in question like that because he's a judgemental jerk.

workaholics usually have few friends because they've prioritized work, and it's not until everyone is gone they notice how lonely they are, as you often don't notice what you have until you lose it.
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i fell in love with her omg xD my top 1 waifu now
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"Oh noes, I spent all my time obtaining power, and now I'm all alone, Ohhhhh, what a world, what a world."

Someone really needs to write a book on how most fantasy protagonists are at least 90% responsible for their own misery.

Last edited 25 days ago by gaigous.

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@Red225 Cause why not.
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@Drifter: Keep in mind the "Kindness is poison" argument is being made by a damaged individual. You don't have to agree with Zagan to understand why he thinks the way he does. That's good character design from the author.
+1 upvote. It is good character design.

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN: Oh, there is a notification and......Naaaahhh fuck. Fucking wall of text. Is that my punishment for always writing too much? ?

Overall (in most cases) you share me POV? Welcome on the winning side! ? But for sake of defending my arguments....

Okay. The first one was vaguely formulated. I just wanted to get my point across. Let me restate that. "Kindness in fact keeps us from mass and serial murdering each other in most cases." There! Better. Well. You don't have to be kind to not murder people, but truly kind people seldom do that.

>>But to be fair, "the weak should perish" is a argument aggressors usually use.
That's called "natural selection", buddy.
Nature doesn't use arguments. It does its thing. Only people are just too complicated and weak and therefore need "arguments", a stuff they made up. And the most funny part about this is, those "argument"-thingis sometimes even make them mad. ? Welp, the girl did get mad. Point proven.

Oh, Alfred Noble and dynamite. A really great guy! And that dynamite thing still helps today to feed millions of people. And helps to gives them electricity. And metals. And railways. Etc. You know, who should be sued? That guy that invented the hammer! That vicious thing killed soooo many people. Wait....If hammers kill people, do keyboards make typos?

To make things clear, [...]
[...] which describes ungratefulness, predicting, and wisdom.
I'll be frank. Wisdom is overrated. Nativity rocks! I for my part like my women naive. But to come back to the topic at hand: Patience could be seen as both part of wisdom and as part of kindness. If he would have been a bit kinder (he wouldn't have said that in first place), but he might have shown more patience and consideration. Instead he got pissed, because she got pissed, which showed a lack of experience, wisdom and judgment. XP

>>I thought about his "kindness is poison" stance more like a general attack on the concept of altruistic kindness.
Altruism: "the belief in ...
Oh, fuck no. I'm not doing this. Please read the fine print. Disclaimer: "That said, I really don't want to discuss, if altruistic kindness really exists (We could as well discuss the existence of God. Nobody will be happy afterwards.)" ?

Well, okay. I'm doing this a bit.
In a world where altruism is absolute:
-Using the power of friendship, your best friend's rope has been loosened enough for em to escape.
-Then the two of you rescue the stranger.
-After that, you say hello to the train captain and tell him that everything's fine so that you won't worry him any further from his stressful day.
-And finally you invited the psychopath into rehabilitation where he is then finally able to rejoin society.
-And all five characters of this tale, including yourself, become friends.

But that isn't the world we live in, isn't it?
No, that would be Equestria or the Nanoha-verse.

Nothing lol. I just wanna shoot you down cause I like debates.
Geez. Y u so mean? Bee a bit more kind, will ya? ?

Ahh, discussions are fun. But some day I'll get banned, for posting too much text.
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I can't believe this chapter revealed the Shocking Truth that this is just the Blasphemous Love Story of a D&D Wizard and Sorcerer.

Why do I think the 'nameless girl' who he saved grew up to be the Holy Knight who he just dealt with? She looks kinda similar.

Re; Philosophy : This guy would get along well with Darth Traya.
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@slayerdart

Thought the same thing. Mangadex never disappoints.
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I came here to look if there's gonna be a debate on what the protagonist said, and looks like I was right. ?
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Oh hey, a debate popped up. I agree with @Qelix but just for fun, I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate.

Kindness in fact keeps us from murdering each other.

While that statement in itself is true, it's not absolute. There are many variabilities that contributes to murder: vengeance, blackmail, beliefs, immorality, psychotic behavior... the list goes on. Simply classifying kindness as a prevention of murder is very limited and often false for the reason stated above.

Richard Chase is a serial killer who refused to enter anyone's home who have their front door locked for the reason that we assume to be that he avoids breaking and entering. Why, isn't he very kind?
Source:https://www.thethings.com/sugar-spice-and-everything-nice-15-of-the-nicest-serial-killers-of-all-time/

Social kindness e.g. inspires to people to investing their lives for a greater good, life developing medicine for example, instead of using their intelligence to become another wall-street broker.

Ooh, I do agree. I mean, Alfred Noble invented the dynamite to help mine in a quarry faster and keep people at a safe distance. Isn't he nice? Oh yeah, people use his bomb to kill people. Great! Another great man who got abused of his kindness in ways he could not even predict.
Source:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel

But to be fair, "the weak should perish" is a argument aggressors usually use.

That's called "natural selection", buddy.

If he had seen it under the aspect of kindness,

To make things clear, let us use these words' google definitions.
Kindness: "the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate."
Naive: "(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment."

You see where I'm getting? If she were to act kind, she would be naive. "Oh look, a hero just came and save me" is both an act of kindness and naivety. This is a scenario where both meaning shall be inseparable. Compared to "A man has just slain my prosecutors. What is his ulterior motives? And why couldn't he come any sooner to save my friends?" which describes ungratefulness, predicting, and wisdom.

I thought about his "kindness is poison" stance more like a general attack on the concept of altruistic kindness.

Altruism: "the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others."

Except, this world isn't perfect. A multinational company has no problem letting thousands of its workers go jobless if it's for the sake of minimalizing loss at an unsatisfactory branch. Of course, there are so many small-scale examples of true altruism; but it is never absolute.

If some psycho were to strap a random stranger you don't know and your best friend to two railroads and a train is marching at full speed - you're given the switch to decide where the train will go and thus who will die.

In a world where altruism is absolute:
-Using the power of friendship, your best friend's rope has been loosened enough for em to escape.
-Then the two of you rescue the stranger.
-After that, you say hello to the train captain and tell him that everything's fine so that you won't worry him any further from his stressful day.
-And finally you invited the psychopath into rehabilitation where he is then finally able to rejoin society.
-And all five characters of this tale, including yourself, become friends.

But that isn't the world we live in, isn't it?

In this world, you just have to let the stranger go and hope that you satisfy the psycho's taste for blood.


And so, what is my objective to this entire argument? What am I trying to state?

Nothing lol. I just wanna shoot you down cause I like debates.
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Seriously this series is a diabetes to me
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Others: "by who"
Me, a grammar nazi: *by whom intensifies*
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His fragile heart isn't ready for that
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Keep in mind the "Kindness is poison" argument is being made by a damaged individual. You don't have to agree with Zagan to understand why he thinks the way he does. That's good character design from the author.

Also, thanks for cutting that panel Fluffyfish. Such a small pic but so cute.
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and now to making some sweet sweet love.
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quick! roll the tragic naruto villain flashback!
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YES YOU MAY NEPHIE.

Also screw those elves heh
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eh.... gotta say those assholes villagers deserve it
anyway our Mage finally get to get laid with his beloved Elf!...... who am i kidding ofc not... he probably gonna get flustered and do something dumb xD
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WELCOME TO POUNDLAND
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@usernameistaken
Thanks for the explanation. I was also wondering why he has a hobby of sitting on the throne, in the empty room, seemingly doing nothing. It's like some goofy demon king role play. Good to know there's a reason for it.
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https://mangadex.org/data/593905041e58223495dbde6f9c5a26ba/T26.png

did my boy just fucking propose
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@Fluffyfish Blessed image
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You have been visited by the cute sleepy elf.

Last edited 25 days ago by Fluffyfish.

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@Red225: I wholeheartedly agree (on kindness also being a form of strength).

@AdamKnight: I thought about his "kindness is poison" stance more like a general attack on the concept of altruistic kindness. That said, I really don't want to discuss, if altruistic kindness really exists (We could as well discuss the existence of God. Nobody will be happy afterwards.). But it does have an undeniable, positive impact on society.

@monkey123: I do love to bla. ? And I concur. When my life is threatened, I want to save myself. A wish a share with the mindless mass in panic. God knows what I would do. But imaging that: You're a passenger aboard the Titanic 2 on a space cruise and you had that nice chat with this person over a plate of Klingon gagh. You agree, that fresh, wriggling gagh is the best. A few hours later the Titanic 2 (who names a ship, this way?), while in orbit of an ocean world (space ocean), gets his be a comet fragment (space iceberg). The engines fail and the new irregular orbit let's the ship enter the upper atmosphere periodically. The orbit decreases each time and soon the ship will drop out of orbit and crash (space sinking). You head to the lifepods (space lifeboats. Okay, I stop now.), but , who would have guessed, there aren't enough. On the way there you get trampled down, by this rude guy. When you arrive, there are only two seats left in that lifepod and in front of you there are two other persons. The rude guy and the gagh guy. As fate has it, you also are in possession of a taser and you can take down one guy by surprise. Whom do you chose? See? Being nice has its merits. XD

In real life I try to keep smiling until some rude person comes along. And if they mess with me, I make certain, that they exactly meant it this way and didn't just have a bad day or something. And if they really wanted to piss me off, I let them taste hell. Everyone should do that. It's a healthy way of living and I do recommend it.

Last edited 25 days ago by Qelix.

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IF it was me I would have killed everyone muist be the best answer ever.
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nice, now they gonna have intense sex
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Way to much to read
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@Red225 :
"Zagan's moral backing is really superior to that nameless girl who he saved; the girl's words are meaningless. It doesn't matter if it is right or not for the weak to survive; the universe is not fair and does not care whether one is weak or not and there is no moral or ethical argument that will stop the vast majority of catastrophes that may befall a person. Being strong is something needs to do to survive, and that's all there is to it. Whether that be to have strength by joining with a group, paying dues to a government for protection, or have money or have talent or be so kind that others will spring to your aid. To bemoan other's strength is a sign that you have given up on protecting yourself."

First, I want to precise that when I talk to weak, strong and strength I talk about "the skills to protect yourself alone in any situation" It's the same meaning that Zagan and the nameless girl use when they talk about weak, strong and strength. So a tetraplegic being protected by the society (whatever the reason for it) isn't strong: it's a weak being protected.

With that said, there is a flaw in your post because you switch from the definition above (that you use for the first 2 and the last sentences) with another definition of strength which is: "how someone can protect himself" (which in this definition makes our tetraplegic's example as strong as the society want to protect him).

With Zagan definition, if you join a group to protect you, you gave up on protecting yourself (to an extent).

But by not having to rely on strength to survive, one can get more skills which would benefit the group more (specialization principle).
And in this regard, I think at the contrary that more often than not, the girl is right.
Moral and ethics are subjective so, in a vacuum, nothing is right or wrong. But what the girl ask isn't: "Is killing the weak a universal good ?" but more like "Is killing the weak a good thing for what you want ?".
At the first question, the answer is like you said: it doesn't matter. But at the second, the answer will tend toward: no, killing the weak isn't a good thing.
Because letting the weak live helps society better by allowing specializations in other fields than war, by allowing skill diversity and by facilitating socialisation between people.
In return, this "protection of the weak" helps groups to be formed, which upgrade the quality of life and develop communities stronger than the sum of their people.

So if you want to socialize with people, if you want an easier life or if you want to be safer it's often better to protect the weak for you (and to be protected by stronger people or group than you).


This doesn't negate what Zagan says, and doesn't prove him wrong: Zagan is a loner that want to live alone so for him being strong is the most important because his protection and life quality depend on it.
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D'awwwwww
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fuck new update thanks
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@usernameistaken If you're not sure, then put it in the spoiler. Otherwise you'd be spoiling some details, like you just did.

Last edited 25 days ago by Monceber.

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So sweet, too cute.
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@Qelix
You can blabla all you want but think about situations where you could get into emergency situations. There you could panic and your mind becomes distorted.
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Dear Translator.

You should know that the "TBC" must be written, so i can play Roundabout Intro in my head....
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Wholesome
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@Qelix
striving for strength should be done, when ever practicable, kindness has it's own merits
Kindness itself can be a strength. Many different things can be strength.
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@Qelix

I always thought that being nice, being moral, and being reasonable/rational is three different, separate, unrelated things.

Mafia can be VERY nice, but not moral, and being reasonable is optional
Someone socially awkward can be not quite nice, yet moral, reasonable is also optional
HRD staff is always reasonable, being moral and nice is optional
So on and so forth...

Zagan is not very nice, not quite moral, but VERY reasonable and logical. Being evil is simply not worth his time.
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@Red225
That dialogue would fit page 1 better.
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last page (= _= make me want scream to
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@Signa
That sure is, can't wait.
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At the end he was like "NANI?!!"
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I know I will aggravate some people, but I strongly want to disagree with the "kindness is poison" argument. While I do agree, striving for strength should be done, when ever practicable, kindness has it's own merits. Kindness in fact keeps us from murdering each other. The police wouldn't have a chance to keep up with the murder cases and frankly, they wouldn't care much, would they? Social kindness e.g. inspires to people to investing their lives for a greater good, life developing medicine for example, instead of using their intelligence to become another wall-street broker. Or to formulate it as a stone-cold fact, society needs kindness or it will come to an end and nearly everyone will die (, except Kirby). Welcome back to the jungle. Also MC sounds like a fucking edge lord!

That "bitch" was quite ungrateful to her savior, true, but the point is, she herself wasn't very kind at all, was she? In the end she should have phrased that differently. But to be fair, "the weak should perish" is a argument aggressors usually use. Maybe something else happened to the girls loved ones and she simply snapped, when he used those words. In this case, it was his own stupid comment, that made her ungrateful. If he had seen it under the aspect of kindness, he might he understood that, they might have rekindled and made her his girlfriend. Who knows? He tried to give her a lesson in life and it didn't went well. Go figure.

The problem lies in not being kind enough! (And those bastards'n'bitches abusing kindness.)

And also, he bought that elf girl. Following his own advice -> RAPE TIME! See where not being kind would lead him? Back to his empty castle. (If he survives, that is.)
Judging from his behavior the MC himself is kindness in denial incarnated. He really isn't the best representative for the things he preaches. I rest my case (for now).

Last edited 25 days ago by Qelix.

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I NEED SPOILER!!
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@Red225 And I don't know why it seems so fitting.
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man, trust me, it would get even much better later on!
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I don't know why I did this.
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I would be disappointed if nothing happened
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May I... sleep with you?

( อก° อœส– อก°)
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@Signa:
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is there a reason as why he need to constantly sit on that throne he even sleep on it?


Not sure if they skipped the explanation of it here, but the castle is surrounded by a barrier and spells to buff his power. It's strongest at the center, the throne, so he sleeps there.
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@Operatix
I'm not sure if you can consider this as an upgrade of some sort but...
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@Dezaki i think it's a cool factor . In fact some of us muslims believe that King Solomon (peace be upon him) who is a prophet at the same time used to sleep at his throne most of the time ... and we consider anything God's prophet did is cool .
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is there a reason as why he need to constantly sit on that throne he even sleep on it?
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I love his way of thinking
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How touching! That's a lot of sad backstory and even the silly dork Zagan managed to say the right sort of words to say.

Zagan's moral backing is really superior to that nameless girl who he saved; the girl's words are meaningless. It doesn't matter if it is right or not for the weak to survive; the universe is not fair and does not care whether one is weak or not and there is no moral or ethical argument that will stop the vast majority of catastrophes that may befall a person. Being strong is something needs to do to survive, and that's all there is to it. Whether that be to have strength by joining with a group, paying dues to a government for protection, or have money or have talent or be so kind that others will spring to your aid. To bemoan other's strength is a sign that you have given up on protecting yourself.

Nepi is too cute!
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uhuk too much sweet at the end
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Can this even get better!?
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"!?"
Pretty much sums up the reaction of every protags ever.
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