You wish lol. Well, you're free to try engaging if you have time to spare. You'll see what i mean soon enough. For your sanity, keep in mind that the other party is a troll, and much of the community here sees him for what he is. Just don't get emotionally invested, and you can laugh about it later.
@criver What a coincidence i wanted to end this too provided you dont say something amazingly stupid, and yet here you are.
So now, b**** i****. Lets begin then shall we.
"Mary Sues intensify."
"The question is do you. If you consider this last chapter you can see very well most of the MCs going into Mary Sue territory. Chris specifically. Do you need a breakdown page by page, or can you figure it out on your own?"
This response to Lan shows what a massive d**** you are, you are not smart, youre an idiot that starts a discussion with being a condescending prick.
And I do not appreciate you being such a d****, d****.
"You can have a strong character without making him a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. There's basically no suspense when you know everything will fall right into place."
Blanket statement that doesnt correlate with the story at all. Besides do you even realize in how many stories "things fall into place"
These are strong characters without being Mary sues/ Gary Stus
Under your definition, every good character, for whom things turn out alright is a Mary Sue. Youre an i****.
"1. Try repeating it a few more times, it may make it true for all that you know.
2.The whole chapter was about the characters showing off, with occasional plot device 'characters' that were only there to ask questions for our MC to answer.
3.If you believe our MC is not idealized to Gary Stu levels,
4. then maybe you should do a better analysis of what you read.
5.There were numerous red flags already and it's not getting better. [...]."
That first line really lets your character show doesnt it. condescending from the get go like the insecure little worm you are.
2. This is the point in the story where our Retired Heroes get together and get to show off against a horde of lower demons.
You have no idea about writing and what high and lowpoints there are in a story.
Now 3. you could argue that the execution is lacking but you make the nonsensical statement that this is because the main character is a Gary stu, Go f*** yourself you have no clue what youre talking about.
4. You cant analyse for s***, all your arguments are nonexistent, your points are weak, your debate skills are lacking, aswell as your brain. I really dont think you are the authority on this.
(Have you noticed Im done playing nice, ill have you know i edited a previous comment to make it less of a personal attack, well screw that)
5. prove it
"[...] 1. you are unaware that a Mary Sue is not tantamount to the character having no flaws whatsoever.
2. Go read the definition in wikipedia.
3. Your 3rd 'strike' is also working against you. It basically shows that Chris refrains from racial prejudice as opposed to some townspeople. If anything it further adds to his 'virtuous character'. [...]
4. Do repeat it a few more times if you truly believe it will make your statement correct."
1. Well bully for you, an accurate description would probably be too long.
A mostly accurate description would be "A character with seemingly no, or negligible flaws, that is morally superior, and superior in skill despite having less training or experience."
You could force that self insert in there, but I find it redundant. There you go. Theres the definition you wanted so desperately.
2. Telling someone to go look it up, is a non argument, it doesnt validate your point and in general just shows how little you really know about the things youre talking about.
It leaves your opponent, me in this case free to cherry pick whatever he wants (which i usually then do on purpose). It further shows that you dont have the required motivation
to actually do some research and looking up yourself, further showing that you cannot possible form an informed opinion.
3. As I have previously stated it does not work against me, just because he is a good person, doesnt mean he is a Sue.
Just because he fell in love with a demon doesnt mean hes virtuous (Blatant misuse of that aswell btw),
if you would have said that its an overused cliche that love overcomes even the race gap, than I could have actually agreed with you.
But of course youre just again showing how close minded you are.
4. Do be condescending a little more, im sure itll net you many friends and good times in your live. I mean you already found me isnt that nice.
"1. Time to learn the meaning of words:
2. Good job calling me out when you don't even know what you're talking about. It seems that in your mind: flawless <=> Mary Sue. That explains your comments until now.
3. I can provide you more sources as to why flawless is not the same as Mary Sue, [...]"
1. Well I definetly seee that you have a lot left to learn.
2. Well great job about misrepresenting my viewpoint im sure thats not going to come up in a bit when you claim I did such a thing. Youre still a m**** btw.
3. No one cares about your sources. How about you try to actually form an original thought or argument in your head instead of mindlessly listing definitions,
not actually understanding connotations and meanings that come with it.
I would have actually gone through every single one and explained to you why youre wrong if you wouldve been more amicable,
but alas as you have proven on multiple unprovoked occasions, youre just a massive a**** and dont deserve such service.
Aaaaah the finale. Im not just saying that because im fucking done with you, im saying it because I hope that new a**** distracts from the one on your face ever so slightly.
Maybe itll even provide a chance for you to become a better person. Consider yourself blocked.
"1. Moving the goalposts are we? And no, I am not obliged to educate you further.
2.You post a satirical video by some random youtuber as 'argument'
3. that doesn't even cover what intrinsically makes a Mary Sue but rather lists traits that may have been associated with some Mary Sue characters in some works.
4. And you think that excuses your ignorance? You can have a Mary Sue with none of the traits listed in your video, how's that for a revelation?
5. [...] read up on the subject.
6. "So whats your actual points till now." Don't tell me what you think my point is,
7. all the bs you listed are your primitive views on the matter, so do not associate that with me.
8. I'll just leave you be in your puddle of ignorance, I concede the fact that I can't fight your ignorance.
9. You'll just keep trying to drag me down to your level and beat me with experience if this continues any further."
1. The goalpost has been you dont understand the s*** youre spewing and ive sufficiently proven it.
And the fact you use the word educate ... god seriously, you have not explained ANYTHING, nothing,
you have made no valid points the entire time. You only claim youve made any reasonable points.
While in truth you have been making blanket statements and avoiding any real discussion which is obvious from your responses.
If you are so desperate that you need me to point it out for you, just look at my reply with the strikes.
The only thing you have is a point so weak it crumbles in a light breeze to my third strike,
you are so incapable you couldnt even adress the other two besides saying "youre wrong".
Top notch discussion skills you got there, and here you are trying to play high and mighty.
2. I have not even claimed its an argument and the fact that its satirical doesnt mean anything compared to ts educational value.
3. Prove it b****. You can drivel on for all eternity but your imagined reality does not supersede actual reality.
Youre saying yourself it lists traits associated with Mary Sues but then claim it doesnt represent what a Mary Sue is.
You could win gold with those mental gymnastics good sir.
Besides someone like you who doesnt understand what a Mary Sue is hardly an authority "intrinsically makes a Mary Sue"
How about you actually do some of that research you dread so much, about where the Term came from and what it is really associated with.
4. No you can not, its not a Mary Sue then. Its amazing how little you understand this term while riding that horse of yours.
"Well this thing has neither Hydrogen nor Oxygen in it, so it must be water! You can totally have water without it!"
And yes to ease your worries, your ignorance is excused. Your absolute disgusting attitude however is not.
5. Actually I only ever start debates when im at least 99% sure im right and I also look up terms during it since english isnt my first language and
I want to make sure I am using the right terms. So how about you, mister i****, go and actually do some of that reading weve been talking about.
Preferably something that builds character because goddamn you need it. Maybe when youre done you could fathom that youre wrong,
that youre not some great thinker and maybe insulting everyone you meet isnt exactly the best choice.
6. Oh hey look the thing I said wed get back to isnt that fun.
By the fucking way, did you notice that, in all these quotes, ALL of them, from you,
You have NOT EVEN ATTEMPTED to prove your points and show by example of the manga we are actually discussing that the main character is a Gary Stu.
No you have only condescendingly said, "Look it up" over and over again. I see you a one of the great intellectuals of our time alright.
AND you have the fucking GALL to say "Don't tell me what you think my point is"
Doesnt it just speak to you dear ladies and gentleman, how this utter m**** does not even understand how to talk to other human beings.
He doesnt think clarification is something needed when he is apparently this obsessed with the accuracy of his imagined meaning of words.
7. You know, I have actually been generous with interpreting the laughable points you have, and even added to your side of the discussion by talking about Salyi,
but it has become quite obvious that you dont have a sense for the meanings behind the words on the paper, I see a pattern here, do you?
But bs and primitive views ... *****************
You know im actually left a bit speechless here, I mean it takes talent to be this fucking dense,
so I guess im just left with saying my favorite phrase when some spouts nonsense. Prove it.
8. And a last personal attack, to hide that fragile ego of yours, to prevent it from shattering ****************.
Well ill have you know, I am very aware of the things I know and dont know,
"We live on an island surrounded by a sea of ignorance. As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." -John Archibald Wheeler
The fact that you think ignorance is an insult, is quite funny to me tbh, it just goes to show that youre drowing in that sea, that you think is knowledge,
while your island has already sunk below the water.
9. Youre right unlike you on that high horse of yours, I am on the even ground.
Im here trying to discuss this with you as equals and even been negligent by overlooking your holier than though attitude.
But the thing of course is, that dragging you down to the ground would reveal how utterly useless you are.
I have now shown again and again, that you have not made a SINGLE argument or point worth debating.
You have not proven that Chris is a Gary Stu, but have only proven how s**** you really are.
And only shown your determination of staying on that high horse, and looking down on everyone around you.
If you dont like my tone throughout, tough shit, you reap what you sow.
Moving the goalposts are we? And no, I am not obliged to educate you further.
You post a satirical video by some random youtuber as 'argument' that doesn't even cover what intrinsically makes a Mary Sue but rather lists traits that may have been associated with some Mary Sue characters in some works. And you think that excuses your ignorance? You can have a Mary Sue with none of the traits listed in your video, how's that for a revelation?
And you still don't know what a Mary Sue is judging by the rest of your comment, so you still didn't put in the effort to read up on the subject.
So whats your actual points till now.
Don't tell me what you think my point is, all the bs you listed are your primitive views on the matter, so do not associate that with me.
I'll just leave you be in your puddle of ignorance, I concede the fact that I can't fight your ignorance. You'll just keep trying to drag me down to your level and beat me with experience if this continues any further.
Merriam-Webster, doesnt contradict me.
TvTropes, yes but first refer to video. Also just having one trait that maybe when stretching could be considered mary sue, does not make a Sue.
"They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, [...] saving the hero."
The only one this could possibly apply to is Saliy and shes the demon kings child. Hes an educated king that has trained in combat since he was young.
Welp experience check. And "your point" mute.
And for this one " [...] wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion[...]" prove it
I see no self inserts here
"[...] judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting"
Well this isnt subjective as fuck right? I find these characters realistic (in the world of the story) and interesting.
So whats your actual points till now.
Saliy starts out strong and that the Prince turned legendary Hero is a good person,
because he fell in love with a demon at first sight when she saved him from a monster ...
If you want to ramble on quotes that have frankly nothing to do with this story be my guest.
Its neither an argument, nor prove.
Time to learn the meaning of words:
to all outward appearances
And let's also ignore this, right?:
This is why adding character flaws to characters doesn't make them not be Mary Sues. This is why flawed characters can be Mary Sues.
They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of the story, such as by saving the hero.
"Mary Sue" today has changed from its original meaning and now carries a generalized, although not universal, connotation of wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion, though the characterization of upstaging the established protagonist(s) of existing properties remains fundamental.
the "Mary Sue" is judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting.
Good job calling me out when you don't even know what you're talking about. It seems that in your mind: flawless <=> Mary Sue. That explains your comments until now.
I can provide you more sources as to why flawless is not the same as Mary Sue, it's nothing you won't find without a rudimentary google search either. You can also go and ask on any well-respected platform whether flawless and Mary Sue are tantamount and you will get the same response 90% of the time.
Actually there was at least one person that agreed with me in the next chapter's comments. So you are wrong, but I admit that this is irrelevant.
Also judging by your 'strikes' you are unaware that a Mary Sue is not tantamount to the character having no flaws whatsoever. Go read the definition in wikipedia.
Your 3rd 'strike' is also working against you. It basically shows that Chris refrains from racial prejudice as opposed to some townspeople. If anything it further adds to his 'virtuous character'. Further driving him into Mary Sue territory.
Do repeat it a few more times if you truly believe it will make your statement correct.
@criver Nobody agrees with you and you are wrong.
All of these characters are flawed, its important because thats where the mangaka derives the comedy from. 1st strike against the Sue
Were seeing them after they already became legendary heroes, but weve already seen they didnt start out this way with how Saliy had to save his ass when they were younger.
And even know there are things they are not good at, he still cant use magic for shit, and he himself admits that he isnt a good strategist and misses his adviser. Strike 2
Not everyone agrees with our heroes, in fact some people are activly opposed to him because he married a demon.
Hes not portrayed as this morally superior whos always right, because of course Mary Sue would never be wrong. Strike 3
Ill repeat it a few more times if you want, youll be wrong every time.
@Argolok Try repeating it a few more times, it may make it true for all that you know.
The whole chapter was about the characters showing off, with occasional plot device 'characters' that were only there to ask questions for our MC to answer. If you believe our MC is not idealized to Gary Stu levels, then maybe you should do a better analysis of what you read. There were numerous red flags already and it's not getting better. My only hope for the next chapter at this point is Tifa getting in trouble, otherwise we'll probably just be served a bland battle of our MCs with the demons.