Senpai ga Uzai Kouhai no Hanashi Japanese

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Vol. 2 Ch. 40
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Damn the innocence of indirect kiss always gets me going in girls. SO FUCKING CUTE
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@LysandersTreason
your first comment was pretty slick,
while the water bottle kiss is definitely a thing I have seen shared chopsticks and teacups without an issue
but that second part about the isekai food thing is 100%
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Why are there so many long ass comment bellow i cant folloe it i don't have much time for that XD
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You do know that sharing fluids left on the bottleneck is pretty, ugh, unsanitary?
If not embarassed, I'd be concerned about passing my germs onto the other person.
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What vandrer said.
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Holy shit the novels in this comment section. You guys write too damn much, get it within one paragraph with a tl;dr at the end.
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@LysandersTreason
The reborn younger hits a broader demographic, but it is still catered towards the younger groups. It's just a convenient "I don't want this to turn into a sexy party" device to keep the rating down.

I think at the end of the day, it's a story. And depending on how the author wants to have the story be about is what he ends up writing about. We'll use Maou no Hajimekata as an example, like you used. It's heavy into sex and that's fine, because that's what the author wanted to write it as. Where things like Yuuna and the Haunted Hot Springs has a dominate male main character that does nothing to the girls who want him besides grope them in his sleep, but that's how he's written as, and that drives the story.

Well it isn't that Japanese morality is really that different. They even conceptualized the mask stuff, you hide your true face. They just don't show what they think/want to do to other people and repress their desires to show some kind of twisted respect. Sometimes it can become quite toxic and overbearing. Now I can't say myself if they believe what they're doing is right, but the way their society is going proves that it isn't going well.
from @DexHaunter
This is a very good statement and correctly explains what I've been trying to say- if I wasn't dumb.

The long and short of this all is simply, the Japanese are weird. In a good way, but weird.
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@vasqueztion

Some really great points. As far as the 'being reborn at a younger age' thing, it's interesting to me because does that make the target audience people the age of the reborn MC or people the age of the MC in his original world? Personally I think it must be the latter. These are stories aimed at 20 and 30-something men. And... shouldn't these guys have had sex at some point? Or are things just so bad in Japan that they're still virgins?

The "sneaky fucker" thing doesn't rely on having power. It's a thing in the real world, too. They'll want to put down jocks, rich guys, etc, call them assholes who don't deserve such a sweet girl, etc... it's all to try to tear down men more successful than them and use other "strengths" (ie kindness, intelligence, sympathy/empathy etc) to acquire pussy instead of confidence, social status and wealth.

What being an OP MC does, though, is maximize the "morality" of that sneaky fucker strategy. That now even having gained confidence, social status and wealth, hoho! Our MC is STILL a kind and generous person, making him a SUPER EXTRA SPECIAL NICE GUY DESERVING OF PUSSY.

And the same goes for rejecting women. That's again, to showcase how much of a NICE GUY he is. Because that's the Japanese male otaku's fantasy -- that he'll literally have to fight off women who will love him because of his beta-male qualities, not alpha-male qualities.

Surrounding himself with a harem of underage girls who want his dick but he still won't touch is just a continuation of the NICE GUY fantasy. At least in Death March the guy goes and beds some prostitutes, but a lot of it doesn't make sense. Like Arisa is also a Japanese woman reborn into a younger body -- she's in the same situation he is. She's not mentally a child, yet he still won't touch her. And Lisa the snake girl seems plenty old, but he won't touch her. Also like in GATE, where there's a gothic loli whose 900 years old and wants sex sooo super bad but "well she only looks 12, so I can't"... meanwhile his subordinates are getting fantasy girls pregnant. But not mr super nice guy otaku! The author could easily have put women who want him, in an appropriate age, etc, and allowed him to experience romance. But they purposefully surround the MCs with girls who he wants to, but shouldn't (for whatever contrived reasons) lay his hands on -- this is to, again, show how nice of a guy he is. It's kind of sickening.

Sometimes the stories play around with a number of variations of these tropes and sometimes they subvert them, but it's really kind of an epidemic. And then we have the flip side of stuff... like MAOU NO HAJIMEKATA, where it's a 70+ year old wizard who rejuvenates his body to be mid-20s, and then gathers a harem through rape, mind control, coercion and other means. He even gets blowjobs from a 6-year-old village girl on the regular (which wasn't explicit in the manga version, but absolutely was in the translated web novel).

And I think that there's something in particular about the fact that these are Japanese stories, and Japan also has the world's lowest birth rate, that something like 30-40% of Japanese report being virgins even up through their mid-30s, that they even have a name for that kind of Japanese man -- herbivore men. Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivore men -- men who have given up on love and marriage and "lost their manliness."

I think that segment is a primary target audience for a lot of these novels, so they can vicariously live their fantasies out of finally, finally getting women to love and respect them for whatever they think their strengths are.

Last edited 6 mo ago by MangaDex.

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Well it isn't that Japanese morality is really that different. They even conceptualized the mask stuff, you hide your true face. They just don't show what they think/want to do to other people and repress their desires to show some kind of twisted respect. Sometimes it can become quite toxic and overbearing. Now I can't say myself if they believe what they're doing is right, but the way their society is going proves that it isn't going well.

Last edited 6 mo ago by MangaDex.

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I'm just gonna leave this and be on my way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTyQgwVvYyc
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@LysandersTreason
I think this is where the breakdown begins. The definition of Beta Male.

The stories of passing through worlds, isekais, have been around forever and have only just recently began to explode. And at the same time, it's now that they're, male protagonists, referred to as Beta.

Now, from what I've read, the definition is wide and seems to change person to person. But the general census is that Beta Males, "lack charisma, a will to confront, sexual drive, and are subservient to Alpha Males." now I'm not going to confront ever aspect of this definition. That's too long and boring. I think a lot of this generic definition is being misinterpreted and misplaced.

Most main characters, are blank -lacking charisma- for a simple reason you touched on. Projecting. A blank everyman is easier to engross a reader into being the hero. It doesn't really work most of the time, as the protagonist has to speak and act based on the story, but it's the general idea. It's a crutch to get a reader invested.

This "sneaky fucker" idea boils down to "they are super strong, why aren't they using it?" And to that extent there are underlying circumstances that one may not realize. Yeah, guy is god, but most of these god stories are written in Waring Factions medieval fantasy. And it's a common trope that Nobles aren't exactly good. So the MC uses their power sparingly, only when needed, so they don't garner attention from these venomous sects. They don't want to get used. They also don't want to get targeted. Most times these OP monsters has a party of girls with them, he doesn't want to draw the obvious assassins to him and have his harem used as bait/hostages/death fodder. You wouldn't either. Death March is a great example of this thought process.

Now, on fucking said girls. Most stories, not all of them, have a reborn into a younger body thing going for them. So there's a mental age gap. And reguardless on if your body happens to be the same age as the girls in question. Your mental state is not.
Now the other side of the coin, same age, girls want that D. You're Japanese though, and your moral culture is different. And, as well, most of the protagonists are social outcasts with about as much female interactions as a fetus. So they come off as prudish and "omigosh boobies", making them seem Beta, but really theyre shy and unknowing. It's also almost always thruster upon them, so the shock makes them react different. Like, how would you react if a girl you barely knew just started undressing in front of you, and you were a virgin with no experience with girls? Probably similar.

Long story short. The definitions of Beta Male don't really work most of the time and is just used if the guy isn't on top of all the women all the time. And when did being nice to women become a derogatory? Respecc wamen.
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Lol that "kyaaaaaaa" in anticipation
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https://imgur.com/a/yrRk76I

A quick example I saw in a chapter that was just uploaded
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@Vasqueztion

I have read quite a bit of shoujo - I quite like it, actually, because despite being from the girl's point of view, i can more easily identify with the male characters.

You are correct that Shoujo is a "girl's fantasy" of what they want their ideal man to be like, and at the same time, Shounen is a "boy's fantasy" of what they want to be like. To a certain extent, this plays out similarly in the West, although not nearly to the same degree. For example, women in the west have long had their romance novels -- commonly referred to as "bodice-rippers" because of the many covers that show strong, muscular men literally ripping a woman's clothes off. And the reason is because that's women's fantasy -- They don't want a kind, gentle man who treats them like an angel and places them on a pedestal of worship. As one manga actually mentioned recently, it bothers women when a man is nice to everyone. They want a man to be nice to ONE person -- them alone.

Women's fantasy is taming the wild beast -- their fantasy is for the object of their affection to be so overcome with desire that he'll literally rip her clothes off and have a hard time restraining himself from raping her.

And that's not too far off from the "alpha male" fantasy -- and it's one that you see a lot in Western media/novels, etc., like Starlord in Guardians of the Galaxy. Brash, bold, cocky and pursues a woman with a single-minded aggressiveness that eventually wins her over.

The beta male fantasy, though, is to just be so nice, kind, affable and considerate that a woman thinks "wow, this guy is SO NICE, I see how well he treats everyone, so I know he'll also treat ME that well!" It's just that in the real world, that's not a sexual strategy with a high rate of payoff, especially not of top-class beauties. And of the top-class beauties who DO want men like that... well, they have their pick of the entire world, so why would they choose you?

Beta males (and most Japanese MCs) belong to the "Sneaky fuckers" category. Because they can't distinguish themselves as sexual partners through the things that women traditionally are attracted to (handsome, nice body, athletic prowess, wealth, social status, the strength to protect), sneaky fuckers try to get women through other means (for example, out of jealousy becoming a 'male feminist' attempting to sabotage men and activities that are traditionally masculine ). They want to try to appeal to women through being caring and kind (but at their heart, they also want that "power", which is why so many MCs are completely OP. But this time, THEY are going to handle that power the RIGHT way!)

That's why you get absurdly powerful MCs who are still beta males when it comes to women. They think that's what women want, because that's what they WANT women to want -- someone with ultimate power who chooses to not use it. That's the ultimate manifestation of their 'heart of gold' that they want to showcase to women.
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Yeah, indirect kiss, second only to handholding in lewdness. I bet those two had HIV already. Let's pray they live long.

Last edited 6 mo ago by MangaDex.

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so freaking cute
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Now I realize that I indirect kissed many people
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he is concious of her, at least in her demand!
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@BCS
Well, I can't speak much for Shoujo, as I'm typically not a fan of the art styles. But, as someone who has lived there for 5 years back in the 90s, I can say that comparatively to similar stories here in the west as well as lifestyles, (of the rich and famous) Japan is pretty prudish. Now, that's not to say they are all prudes. They get really freaky if you know where to look.
I'm just exampling based on the "Beta male" stigma and "Indirect Kiss", as well as other statements from other stories. TL:DR I ranted a little.

Now, if I recall, most Shoujo romance revolve around drama as their main focal point. So I would expect that has a lot to do with it, the forceful nature of the male mains? That and Shoujo is catered towards women, and if you've EVER even heard whisper of a woman-based story over here in the west. Shit is straight up porn, my guy.
But again, I wouldn't truly know, as I don't really get into Shoujo often. Though the few I have seen has had the female lead get easily embarrassed, clumsy, or overthinking. Which, is roughly the same thing in a male centric setting.
It's also based in sexual demographic, I believe. Women like men more forceful or kind. Where men enjoy shy or aggressive women. So you have that to work with as well...
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@LysandersTreason

"A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court"

This sounds fucking amazing.

BTW. I haven't read Re:zero, And i am not interested on it, for some reason it doesn't appeal to me.
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@Vasqueztion "moral culture of a country"? Funny how that "moral culture" is completely absent in for example shoujo romance, where it's not uncommon for the MMC to forcefully kiss the heroine still in the first chapter.
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Frankly, I don't have a problem with the indirect kiss trope. I love this manga.
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Man, this Beta thing really is flaring out of control right now. Half the time it's not even used correctly...
And besides, it's the moral culture of a country. To say it's stupid just because you grew up differently is asinine. It's like getting worked up because people eat things you don't, like natto. Sounds really gross, but they eat that shit up, fam. You can't hate on them for enjoying their disgusting beans.
Their culture is different, learn some respect and get over it.

Last edited 6 mo ago by MangaDex.

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@wolfraing

Heh well at this point I've read most of them, I think.

Re:Zero and KonoSuba are probably the best still, although late volume 4/early volume 5 of re:zero has slid downhill pretty badly.

Right now i'm re-reading the grand-daddy of all isekai's.... Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court", written in the late 1800s. If you haven't read it, it's about a metal fabricator/engineer type guy who got hit in the head and woke up near Camelot, where he uses his knowledge of future technology for the Knights of the Round Table.
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@LysandersTreason

I get where you go about the Indirect Kiss, But i don't care about the isekais, When you read an Isekai you know what you are getting into, If you want something else don't even bother to complaint, If you still want to read some isekais ask someone else to recommend some of the good ones.
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'indirect kiss' is the stupidest goddamn thing. It's not a fucking kiss. You didn't make out with the bottle. Wipe the lid with your shirt and take a drink like a fucking adult. Whhhyyyyyyy are they so juvenile? They're freaking grownups and they act like 10-year-olds. Is this supposed to be funny? Why are so many mangas just rehashes of the same goddamn tropes over and over and over and over again.

How many times do I have to see, for example, a weak, beta-male MC get transported into a fantasy world where he becomes super OP, has a harem of horny bitches that want to fuck him, but he refuses because japanese morals/no condoms/curse/900-year-old goth loli/too busy... but still makes sure to introduce soy sauce, miso and mayonnaise, because just eating that world's food would be too fucking difficult.
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shes twelve now she should be fine with that
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